City street dio with down time finally complete

great looking dio thanks for sharing with us

Gary,

it looks great! Especially the detail on damaged structure is awesome!

 

...good work here...one comment I would offer is that you have a lot of empty space in your dio...it is the same as an artist painting a canvas and leaving a lot of the canvas showing through...this has been the dioramists dilema for a long time...one school of thought (Verlinden) is too pile all kinds of military material in those voids (also to help sell VLS products); another shool of thought (my favorite) is to limit the size of your base to your subject footprint, unless there is a really good reason for not doing so...

...one reason this has been a problem is because for many years we thought we should only use square or rectangle pre-cut wooden bases; then came along rounded, oval, etc. and custom-cut bases (out of all kinds of material) that sometimes had the action even spilling off the sides...it created movement and drama to many dios (I believe this was a Japanese innovation)...

I agree with Manny.  The level of detail on the vehicle, figures, and rubble is awesome.  There is just too much open space though.  It either needs to be filled with rubble or add another vehicle or two.  A motorcycle with a sidecar on the left, or a Kubelwagon would fit there great.  More debris would be good too.  If the buildings are reduced as much as they are, there would be a bunch more rubble.  Remember, the same amount of stuff it took to build the building is still there, but now it is thrown haphazardly and in a big piles.  Buildings leave huge debris piles when they are reduced to rubble.  Good job, just work on those open spaces.

my only thought that so many modelers miss is that the roads were from time to time cleared off for use, many pictures from the war show the roads able to be traveled after the attacks, thus the pile along the opposite side of the road fading off the base. following theory of piling on rubble no battles or equipment would have ever moved all of the roads would have remaind completly blocked. as for the space i understand what you were saying, i guess my thought is that had if I had filled it there would have been a bunch of guys saying it was too packed with stuff and needed to be thinned out. i was trying to display more of the diorama base and less armor and figures in this one i think too many people get wrapped up in the focus points and forget the surroundings. please i don't want to sound negative, i love that you guys take the time to respond and i truly appreciate the advice and help offered and i'm glad to hear other than composition differences overall you like my work. i'm sure in the future there will be dio's that contain exactly what you want but i'm equally sure there will be many that don't. i'm just happy to model and have the individual pieces liked by as many people as i can. i thank you for the constructive feedback and will think of it as i build more, just a question? when building a diorama does the average modeler need not worry about the road lying beneth and jst cover it while focusing on everything above the knees?

 

thanks again for your comments i hope i didn't come off as upset or offensive.

Gary

I think it looks pretty good. I think everyone is just used to seeing lots of rubble everywhere. One place I think you could add some more though is in the first pic, the soldier on the far left standing by the wall. Since its a blown up house and not a road maybe placing a lot more rubble there would make sense. You could even have rubble blocking the road beside it like a blockade. If you put bulldozer type shovel marks maybe in the edge of the blockade part it would suggest that it was cleaned up earlier and that that part was pushed up the road to block it.

...the debris amount/pattern isn't my main point on this dio, as I agree that often rubble/debris was cleared of the roads if the area was still habitable or units had to have access to the streets...my main issue is the "open spaces"...here is a WIP that I feel shows elements in every area of the dio and leaves no open spaces:

...this is a resin dio base from VLS that I modified by adding more building rubble...note that the base size is much smaller, which should give the dio a more "lively" feel to it when complete...

...same dio base with sdkfz 234 on it, which fully occupies the street and forces the observer to focus on the vehicle and not "dead" areas on the dio base...once figs are added it will be complete...noe that the 234 almost hangs off of the edge...

...some of the ways I have handled building debris:

I actually kinda like larger bases. The eye goes to what draws it first, subjects like a tank. If you see a tank in the middle of a grass field your eye goes to the tank first. You dont get lost looking around the grass going "oh man theres too much going on, I can focus on the tank!!". Whereas the smaller bases almost leaves it cluttered feeling to me, everything is in a small area and feels like it is getting pushed off.

More than size of the base though is that you can get the point across without having to explain what's going on and why that vehicle is there and what that guy in the doorway is doing. 

Dont get me wrong though Manny I like your dios too and you've done some really nice work that Ive seen. My smaller bases and dios are usually 4 x 6 and the larger one Im working on right now (Post-apocolyptic Dio) is about 11 x 10. For 1/72 those bases leave enough room and it's easy to make it feel like there is more simply by having the roads extend "out" of the base or having a cross section of a building.

Deputy_Brad wrote:

I actually kinda like larger bases. The eye goes to what draws it first, subjects like a tank. If you see a tank in the middle of a grass field your eye goes to the tank first. You dont get lost looking around the grass going "oh man theres too much going on, I can focus on the tank!!". Whereas the smaller bases almost leaves it cluttered feeling to me, everything is in a small area and feels like it is getting pushed off. More than size of the base though is that you can get the point across without having to explain what's going on and why that vehicle is there and what that guy in the doorway is doing.  Dont get me wrong though Manny I like your dios too and you've done some really nice work that Ive seen. My smaller bases and dios are usually 4 x 6 and the larger one Im working on right now (Post-apocolyptic Dio) is about 11 x 10. For 1/72 those bases leave enough room and it's easy to make it feel like there is more simply by having the roads extend "out" of the base or having a cross section of a building.

...hey, no offense taken---to each his own...however, principals of art (and I consider what we do as art) dictate to the contrary of what you are stating unless the size and emptiness of the dio helps tell or further the story...every "master" modeler I have studied also takes the approach I outlined above...I am not saying you are wrong, but I am saying that your school of thought is in the small minority in this case...I have been to a lot of shows where the attitude was "bigger is better, regardless of quality" and I think that is backwards thinking...some of the best work that has been published is not "big"...I am not even sure I understand the point you were trying to make with the tank in the grass field? I mean, what is the point of more grass field than you need? Sure your eye draws you to the tank; that's sorta my point: why all the grass field? Bigger is certainly not always better in scale modeling (that's sorta why it IS scale modeling)...lol...a difference of opinion I suppose... 

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with Manny here, Gary.

Your point about the roads being cleared off from time to time is noted, but while it seems at first breath to hold water, it really doesn't in this case, IMHO.

I think you have to realize that you are supposed to be creating ART here. "Art" being not-necessarily bound to the hard-and-fast maxims of reality. Look, you could do a five-square-foot dio of a tank sitting in the middle of a farmer's field, with 4.5 feet of nothing but static grass and straw around the sides of the tank, and still argue that is entirely feasible and realistic. But you'd be missing the point there, as here.

As protection, firepower and mobility are the three legs of the triangle regarding a tank's success, so are subject matter, composition, and skill of execution the tripod of a successful dio. You certainly have the former and the latter, but in composition, the dio is lacking. You definitely need something to balance the building in the corner there.

Here's the good news--and it has nothing to do with "Geico"!--alll that empty space will be a cinch to fill with another secondary vehicle, or even a cool piece of something; a part of a wall, a cart, a mounted cavalryman or field kitchen limber--something!

Something else you might well-consider in the future for your dio's; NEVER, EVER "square" your roads, buildings, etc, (the major pieces) parallel with the edges of your base (as you've done here). It's MUCH more visually-pleasing to slightly skew the lines of the your scene by placing a slight angle to the major pieces in relation to the edges of your base. Look at other successful, well-known dios, and you'll see that this is invariably true.

As a last point, the work in this dio IS extremely well-done, and I must say that the paint and build all-around is excellent! 

 

hey guys,

i truly appreciate all the compliments on my work, i see that composition is a matten of opinion and there will always be a difference in that. i know that i didn't follow guidelines set by art, or popular diorama builders, but thats where i see modeling, a freedom to create. i guess in my past i had a variety of art teachers that had a variety of opinions, the one that stuck with me was that good art is only good if the viewer likes it. so at least you guys like my technique and i will with no doubt create bases in the future that you do and don't like, in reality this base was designed as a display for a hobby shop that had limited deminsions and they wanted to show off my products more than the figures and vehicle, now i agree that i could have skewed the angle a bit, an oversite on my part. i like the open space in this one, it's as if these guys were the only thing around and someone snapped a wide angle picture of them. some others like the layout as well, some don't maybe next time the ones who like this one will hate the next, i don't know? i'm just happy that you guys want to help and i promise i will take everything you say to heart and with luck my dio's will improve, as for now at least the detail and work is up to par(according to my peers). now i can focus on getting better composition 90% of the time.

 

thank you guys, truly i enjoy posting and getting the comments.

Gary Smith

http://www.smithmilitarymodeling.com

 

Haha that comment about the 4.5 feet made me laugh doog. I just meant its not bad having extra space around. Not necessarily 4.5 feet of static grass, but a few inches around each side of the tank. It goes both ways too, having your tank hang off the base by 2 inches just doesnt look right either, one extreme or the other lol. 

Gary I like your dio but I agree there is quite a bit of plain open space. Luckily it could be an easy fix instead of having to build a new base. Im still working on composition and build quality and finish quality.

First I'd like to say to Gary and Manny that your dios shown above are great. for both of you. All illustrate artistic strength. I have to side with Gary on some points; going into the pics I knew that this would be a change-out display base. I understand that the open spaces are valid and ultimately necessary. Might want to display a Dragon Wagon on there next week. But I agree that the composition seems a little aesthetically lop-sided. One thing I would like to comment on regarding all of the dios is that the mounds of rubble look meticulously swept into neat piles, with little or no dust / debris left on the "cleaned" section of roadway. Like Gino mentioned, the building has been displaced, I'd like to see you'ze guys dust and dirty up them brick roads. It would lend support to your superb armor modeling abilities.

On the issue of dio space and size, I personally think that a 1/35 Panther on a 5' display can be just as impressive as a Panther with it's butt hangin' off the edge of smaller base... if, like me, you're into modeling all aspects (armor, figures, grass, shrubs, trees, buildings, roads, ditches, etc). The real world is full of wide open spaces, filled with art and composition, that are worthy of modeling. I think that point seems to get lost on some armor builders. For me, the key issue is balance in two senses- composition and level of consideration for detail. If you spend 6 months planting grass and individually gluing leaves onto branches onto boughs onto trunks, and then plop a brush-painted-in-tempuras, OOB Monogram tank from 1976 down square in the center of the whole thing then, in my opinion, it will seem unbalanced. And vice versa. When the artistic quality of the portrayed elements in a tank's surroundings matches the quality of it's own detail (photo etched buckles, tie downs, shading, fading, filtering) then VOILA! So go wide open if you want. If you do it right, I won't lose sight of the focal point "for the trees". It will have a tremendous impact on my eye.

Oh well. This is merely my own humble, long-winded, absolutely debatable opinion. Gary- I really like your base.

Steve

Congrats gary and manny! nice diorama,

the assault guns looks awesome and the rubble itself is pretty convincing. your weathering skills shine through. the figures look excellent..dont get discouraged by other peoples input though;they are trying to be helpful and in this regard they are correct about the dead space. it is a fundamental part of diorama construction ...with that said however,you are on the right track to becoming an even better diorama builder than you already are.. reagrds,your Auntie

Excellent diorama, maybe just shoteneing the dio by an inch would help. IMH, I think you need more chunks of rubble, you have a lot of the smaller pieces but not so much of the large ones.

David

Gary, looks pretty awesome from here! Great techniques, would love to hear how you did all of it.

I actually agree with both sides of the argument about the "open space". Tight dios may be more artistically pleasing (according to most), but not making a cookie-cutter build also has it's own merits...I mean, not everyone's work should look the same, right?

First off nice work displayed in this thread and thanks for sharing it. 

Just my here. I ,like some others, see both sides. Like said befor it's art. And it's YOUR art.

I'd say you should use the base for more than just ground work. Use it to convey a sensation. Example: A tiger rolling down the narrow avenues in a Villars Bocage dio would use a small tight base. It would help impress the sensation of tightness. Help give you that clausterphobic (spelling?) feeling.

Now on the otherhand if your wanting to give the impression of the vastness of an area. Take russia for example. Consider the feeling of being out on a patrol in the sea of open land in the steppes of Russia. Would give me the feeling of isolation. A couple extra inches of open land can help convey the vastness of the situation.

Now I dont mean 12 extra inches, but give yourself 2 or 3 or 6 (hey it's your art not mine hehehehe) to convey it.

Thanks Guys,

I appreciate ALL of the comments good bad or somewhere in between, they all help.

i'm glad to see that as i thought there would be opinions on all sides of the viewing aspects. i am most appreciative that overall it seems that the work above all is considered to be good, and that some like the composition.

all in all i just want to thank everyone for taking the time to tell me what you think, i'll put it all in my reserves for future pieces, maybe next time it will be more pleasing to the other side.

Gary

http://www.smithmilitarymodeling.com

 

You might want to reverse your Stug's tracks, they are on backwards.

that one is already gone but i will make note of that for future builds, thanks for the catch on that...

 

Gary

http://www.smithmilitarymodeling.com

 

Excellent diorama, Gary...well done.