Ground work/celluclay questions

Manny Said

I glue empty sprues flat onto the base to give the CC something to "bite" into...sorta like rebar would be to cement...

Manny

As an engineer, (chemical, but around enough concrete stuctures )I just had to answer this. Rebar actually gives strength to concrete. Based on the amount you put down and spur size, your bar is too big for your stucture..i.e. not to scale. Chicken wire or screen might be better...

Then again if your happy with it and it works...

Rounds Complete!!  

The reason the celuclay peel or curls up is that the top side is drying faster than the under side. Don't "help" it by putting it under a lamp or using a hair dryer, fan  etc. Let it do it on its own. The moisture will wick itself up to the surface and you'll get a more even cure.

As AL and the others said, the thinner the better in layering your celuclay.

I use celuclay, mixed with white glue, plaster of paris, any color agent and I mix in some static grass, clay kitty litter, sand, sawdust and other detrius to make my ground effects.

I have some bases that are 20 years old that haven't budged, cracked or decayed and still feel hard. A museum display I did years ago still looks as good as it did the day I installed it.

the doog wrote:

I'd be careful about drilling holes into the wooden base to allow the Cellucaly something to bite into; if anything I think that this would only provide a more convenient and easy way for water and moisture to permeate the wood, which then willl give you warping. I'd advise against this. I have only ever had one base pull away from the wood, and to be honest, I don't know what caused it. I have had wood bases warp on occasion, but that's usually always been the result of just not water-sealing them thoroughly. You're gonna get water-warpage on any wooden base if you don't seal it.   I add maybe a tablespoon or two dollops of white glue to a 3X4 plastic bowl of Celluclay that I'mmixing up, but more or less you gotta just make sure you don't saturate it with either glue, paint, or water. A little bit of experience and testing willgive you a good feel for it after a while; after that, it's pretty much gravy.  The comment about the "feel" of Cellucaly are correct; a nice, pasty feel is what you want--basically as little water as you can get away with, and you can always dip your fingers in water to smooth and shape it around, or just add a slight bit more to the top to make it a little smoother.

wing_nut wrote:

Thanks.  Not meaning to be a pain but can you give me a ballpark ratio of "copius" white glue.  How much white glue would put in if you were mixing 1 full brick of the stuff?

That's a huge amount of Celluclay! For a two inch square figure base that wil be fully covered, I use about 3 tablespoons of Celluclay. I add in about a teaspoon each of white glue and acrylic paint and about a tablespoon of ballast or other textured material. There's maybe a tablespoon of water added after this. If it feels too wet, I add more Celluclay. I almost always have extran and either discard the excess or coat another base if one's ready for that.

I use old take out condiment containers or other recycled plastic containers depending on the amount I need.

These are all guestimate amounts.

Remember, you want the Celluclay thickness on the base to be minimal, building up contours with styrofoam sheets and blocks. The thinner the coating of Celluclay, the quicjer it will cure and the less likely to pull up.

 Here's an article I did on building up a base. You'll see how little Cellucaly is needed for this project. Compare pictures 3 and 5 to get an idea of the thickness of the Celluclay.

I'd be careful about drilling holes into the wooden base to allow the Cellucaly something to bite into; if anything I think that this would only provide a more convenient and easy way for water and moisture to permeate the wood, which then willl give you warping. I'd advise against this.

I have only ever had one base pull away from the wood, and to be honest, I don't know what caused it. I have had wood bases warp on occasion, but that's usually always been the result of just not water-sealing them thoroughly. You're gonna get water-warpage on any wooden base if you don't seal it.  

I add maybe a tablespoon or two dollops of white glue to a 3X4 plastic bowl of Celluclay that I'mmixing up, but more or less you gotta just make sure you don't saturate it with either glue, paint, or water. A little bit of experience and testing willgive you a good feel for it after a while; after that, it's pretty much gravy. 

The comment about the "feel" of Cellucaly are correct; a nice, pasty feel is what you want--basically as little water as you can get away with, and you can always dip your fingers in water to smooth and shape it around, or just add a slight bit more to the top to make it a little smoother. 

Sticking my nose in here, hope y'all don't mind. If this celluclay is so bad about shrink/warp, why not use these plaster bandages/strips. My recent first dior I uses it to cover my styrofoam base and it worked great.

What is the advantage of using celluclay vers plaster strips? 

Use a wooden base. Drill holes in it to give the Celluclay something to bite into. Build up contours using styrofoam blocks or sheets. Mix the Celluclay with copious amounts of white glue, enough acrylic paint to tint it, ballast or other material to give it texture and only enough water to get it to a thick oatmeal texture. If your fingers feel wet while kneeding the mixture, you have too much water. The water you use evaporates reducing the mass of the clay which is contributing to the warping. White glue and paint loose relatively little of thier mass while curing.

Thanks for the info guys.  Mike, I suspect you are correct about the shrinkage.  I just did another small base but peel off the paper from the foam core before applying the c-clay.  If it was warping from the moisture, the top side should have expanded and the "warp" would be high in the center.  But it is just the opposite... the edges are pulling up and the board is cupping and can be seen below.  Gonna go with sealed wood next time.  Thanks again.

Manstein's revenge

I spread it on a piece foam core and it warped badly. I figured thin wood would do the same thing so I glued a piece plastic film sandpaper down grit side up figuring that would keep it from warping and have some "tooth" (I USE OLD, EMPTY SPRUES FOR THIS PURPOSE--GLUE THEM DOWN AND THEY ARE LIKE RE-BAR) for the celluclay hold on to.  It worked... sort of... it shrank. You can see the edges pulling up in the higher angle shot at the lower right.  It is worse now. MIX IN WHITE GLUE (ELMER'S) IN WITH THE CELLECLAY TO MINIMIZE SHRINKAGE.

I have used Celluclay twice now and the second time was on top of a thin MDF base. It warped. Not badly, but enough for me to know! I mix white glue, paint etc as per Doog's formula so the celluclay cures nice and slow.  My first application was fine as the MDF wood base was thick. Well you learn as you go, so next time I will seal the base with some polyurethane varnish before adding Celluclay to prevent the possibility of warping with thinner wood bases.

I assume it is more the shrinkage of the Celluclay causing the warping on the thin bases rather than the water causing the warpage.

Cheers

Mike 

What is the best consistency? Oatmeal?  YES   I spread it on a piece foam core and it warped badly. I figured thin wood would do the same thing so I glued a piece plastic film sandpaper down grit side up figuring that would keep it from warping and have some "tooth" (I USE OLD, EMPTY SPRUES FOR THIS PURPOSE--GLUE THEM DOWN AND THEY ARE LIKE RE-BAR) for the celluclay hold on to.  It worked... sort of... it shrank. You can see the edges pulling up in the higher angle shot at the lower right.  It is worse now. MIX IN WHITE GLUE (ELMER'S) IN WITH THE CELLECLAY TO MINIMIZE SHRINKAGE.  It was very dry before paint/glue/grass.  Does the surface need to be sealed? Or is that just because the layer was so thin? SURFACE SHOULD BE WATERPROOF.  

The next one I want to do is going to have many tiny woods strips... about 1/16" wide and between ¾ and 1" long,  I will need to embed in the surface.  It will be planking for a taxi way.  How do you do that so the wood strips stay flat and not warp? SEAL THIS WITH VARNISH FIRST.

And lastly (for now) what about texture. Mix the gravel/ballast in some ‘clay and spread that or paint with thinned whote glue and glue the texture on?  Or both? I ADD ACRYLIC PAINT RIGHT INTO THE CLAY AS I MIX IT; I USUALLY ADD GROUND EFFECTS (ROCKS, DEBRIS, ETC.) AFTER I SPREAD THE CLAY ONTO THE BASE.