On Large Dioramas

the doog wrote:

I agree that I didn't see any negativity in any of these posts toward panzerguy--his work is so prolific and excelllent that somebody would have to be a real fool to try to slam him on it. That being said, I thought the desert dio there in the link was amazing and incredibly detailed, but I didn't care for the  wide-open setting and the separate little vignettes going on everywhere--I like to see a dio support a singular theme/idea with maybe a single sub-scene going on to provide a bit of eye candy, but I am definitely NOT a "big dio" guy. I've seen too many big dios seem to go for quantity over quality. "The Bridge" however was one of the best I've ever seen on how it all supports the singular theme.  I build relatively small, and think that, for the eye, it's easier to talk in a scene when the dio is less than two feet square. Just my opinion, to each their own. I have to admit too that a BIG consideration for me is storage space--I like to keep them small so I can squeeze 'em into my bookcases!

doog thank you for your comment's on my work.I too never saw any negativity toward's my work in any of the post's.I just thought the whole "size" thing was getting a little outta control.I guess being kinda new here I did'nt realize how a post could start as one thing and by the next page be a whole nother debate.Also I had just finished doing two round trip's from N.H. to NYC so maybe I might have been a tiny bit crankyAs I said before I won't EVER be doing a dio this big again I much prefer doing the smaller one's.Well that said,doog I cant wait to see the finished "bear". 

I agree that I didn't see any negativity in any of these posts toward panzerguy--his work is so prolific and excelllent that somebody would have to be a real fool to try to slam him on it.

That being said, I thought the desert dio there in the link was amazing and incredibly detailed, but I didn't care for the  wide-open setting and the separate little vignettes going on everywhere--I like to see a dio support a singular theme/idea with maybe a single sub-scene going on to provide a bit of eye candy, but I am definitely NOT a "big dio" guy. I've seen too many big dios seem to go for quantity over quality. "The Bridge" however was one of the best I've ever seen on how it all supports the singular theme. 

I build relatively small, and think that, for the eye, it's easier to talk in a scene when the dio is less than two feet square. Just my opinion, to each their own. I have to admit too that a BIG consideration for me is storage space--I like to keep them small so I can squeeze 'em into my bookcases!

panzerguy wrote:

First off sorry if I was a little harsh with my comment's earlyer. Manny your right it is all about civilized debate and discussion. I guess maybe I was taking it a little to serious. Well it's all good now and by the way I like your dio's with the girl's but hey thats a whole nother debate aint it                                         GO PAT'S 17-0 AND TWO TO GO!!

Yeah, wish Manny's girl would get out of that tank. Has her in there cleaning.. keep checking that post but no girl -)

panzerguy wrote:

First let me say that I built "The Bridge" becuase I love modeling and I thuoght it would be a fun thing to do.Trust me, if I thought it would cause this much debate I never would have posted the pic's.To every body who got a kick out of it and took it for what it was thank's I mean it, to every one else stop taking this so damn serious.Remmember it's a hobby.It's supposed to be fun.

Panzerguy,

I did not post any comment in your "The Bridge" because 1st and foremost, I was awed by your dio; when I got around to posting, I saw the direction of some of the posts, I backed off.

I have studied those pictures so so many times and absorb the beauty of your project each time I visit the post. I find something new each time I look and study the pictures. I am a complete novice at building models. I am slowly working on my skills but I am no novice when it comes to art. I have a huge appreciation for art and my hunger for seeing art is huge.

Manny, though I know little about him, builds beautiful models, dios, etc and I watch for his posts on a regular basis because I am absorbed by the work. I add you to that category.

One thing I have learned about art and human nature is "To each, his own" -- Some artists are set in their way and in many ways a traditional method or composition some how becomes "standard" and that is not always good. As for your diorama, I see a beautiful piece of art and tremendous effort in this project. I would, if money was no object, be contacting you about possibly selling this dio. Trust me when I tell you, if you were to make this dio public, there would be art collectors chomping at the bit to purchase this dio and at a healthy price.

If you look at the number of posts I have, you may think that I may have been here a short time, but in fact, over a year. I read the posts, study the art daily, and lately have responded to some of the artwork and occassionally played 'devils advocate' -- The tone on these boards is one that you will come to understand in time. I am awed by many poster's work but as any forum goes, it has clicks, customs, opinions, standards, etc. As you stated, it is a hobby and it is supposed to be fun.

Regards,

Steve

First off sorry if I was a little harsh with my comment's earlyer. Manny your right it is all about civilized debate and discussion. I guess maybe I was taking it a little to serious. Well it's all good now and by the way I like your dio's with the girl's but hey thats a whole nother debate aint it  

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                                      GO PAT'S 17-0 AND TWO TO GO!!

Like others have said, panzerguy, I don't think this post was meant to be negative toward your dio. It just happened to spark a discussion about large dios which yours happens to be. That being said, I think people should be careful about how they word their posts. If you say something negative about a general topic, such as dio size, then panzerguy may feel offended cuz his dio is big, and this post was based a little on his work. On the other side, modelers should realize that these people are not trying to offend them personally. Personally I thought this was a well done dio in any aspect, and I say that not because it is huge and action filled, but from an attention to detail and quality as well. I noticed in your post that I am building a rather large dio as well, and I know I won't be able to master it this well. Being an amature builder still, I am still trying to improve my building skills. I hope that slight seam in my huey won't detract too much from the dio for example, but you seem to have that done pat, again, I liked the tank because of the weathering and damage. Keep going! Its really an insperation.
In any case, sorry to get off track, but everyone just be respectfull and understanding, we don't want anyone's hardwork undermined by taking offense or giving it. it is totally good to give constructive critisism, but when you undermine the basic idea or structure of someones work, they constructive critisism can become insult.


---Sawyer

panzerguy wrote:

First let me say that I built "The Bridge" becuase I love modeling and I thuoght it would be a fun thing to do.Trust me, if I thought it would cause this much debate I never would have posted the pic's.To every body who got a kick out of it and took it for what it was thank's I mean it, to every one else stop taking this so damn serious.Remmember it's a hobby.It's supposed to be fun.

Panzerguy, don't take the discussion as a negative...in fact, that's what the Forums are for: civilized debate and discussion--as long as the debate doesn't spiral out of control or become personal or turn into attacks...After you have been around awhile longer you'll understand better...

...As far as the Large vs Smaller, one of the tests I use to determine whether or not a large dio truly works from a quality and story perspective is to mentally subdivide the large dio into smaller pieces...if those smaller pieces would garner the same "oooh and ahhhh" factor the monster as a whole does, then maybe it has succeded...

Again, it is just my opinion on large dios that, in general, people automatically think they are awesome JUST because they are so big...you also see this to a large extent in other types of modeling...a 1/35th scale U-Boat of average build and finish will draw larger crowds and more ooohs and ahhhhs than a 1/700th scale U-Boat that has been built and finished at the master level...just human nature I suppose...  

My own personal view is that both large and small dioramas are both valuable to our hobby in the same way epic novels and short stories are to literature. In most cases, it is inappropriate to try to compare them side-by-side and nearly impossible to evaluate them using one, set standard of rules or guidelines.

Just as with an effectively written short story, small dioramas are an extremely appropriate way to model concise, impactful scenes. For the most part, a viewer is focused on one thing and one thing only. While there may be a few external, supporting elements, the basic story is right there for everyone to see in a small area. So the question is, what if you have more to tell than you can put in a short story? Large dioramas, when done well, have the capability to tell not one single story, but several chapters of a much larger narrative. In many cases, the modeler "could have" possibly built several small dioramas with each one telling only a single chapter of the story, but that's not what a novelist would do, so why should a modeler?  

Large dioramas are really the only avenue for a modeler to write a full-blown novel in a single scene. I will be the first to admit, just as with actual novels, not every modeler can "pull it off" effectively. Can anyone say every novelist is as effective as Stephen King, JRR Tolkien, or Issac Asimov, to name but a few? And does that mean all the other novelists who have yet to write a "masterpiece" should simply stop writing? The answer is obviously, NO. With very few exceptions, the first few novels written by many of the "great" authors were not instant classics or literary masterpieces. I don't think anyone would have told these authors to change their mindset and shift to writing short stories.

I can appreciate and enjoy all aspects of modeling regardless of genre, style, or method and feel that every modeler should build whatever models they want in the manner they want to build them. Large or small dioramas are two very different animals, but that certainly does not make one more or less valuable than the other. I just hope modelers continue to carry on the traditions of both styles of diorama construction...the hobby will only be richer for their efforts.

Panzerguy,

I didn't post this to in any way comment on your work, but to continue the discussion Manny had begun commneting on the difficulty of pulling off a good and large diorama. I apologize for for any distress or unpleasantness this has caused you. By all means, keep posting your work. I've told you inperson I enjoyh what you produce.

Al

Humm....this sounds like a male size debate...where have I heard this before

Panzerguy, everyone is different. You are correct in the WE DO THIS FOR FUN!!! Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I love Manny and Doog's work but also love what you did with the bridge.

I'm one of those OD guys so I rarely get comments (except for a few of you) from the Germaholic builders.

Its like going for ice cream, some like vanilla, some choc. some like a twist. Then some get one scoop and others get three scoops. But in the long run we all like ice cream

I still think it looks great.

Rounds Complete!!

 

panzerguy wrote:

First let me say that I built "The Bridge" becuase I love modeling and I thuoght it would be a fun thing to do.Trust me, if I thought it would cause this much debate I never would have posted the pic's.To every body who got a kick out of it and took it for what it was thank's I mean it, to every one else stop taking this so damn serious.Remmember it's a hobby.It's supposed to be fun.

Don't worry Panzerguy. I think the other posters did not really mean to come down hard on you. It is just that is the basic nature of open forums. People will openly comment on works posted here and there are times when their views may sound different than yours. As for me, I agree that we should realize that this is still a hobby and it supposed to be fun. So, build on. Build what you like and like what you build. 

First let me say that I built "The Bridge" becuase I love modeling and I thuoght it would be a fun thing to do.Trust me, if I thought it would cause this much debate I never would have posted the pic's.To every body who got a kick out of it and took it for what it was thank's I mean it, to every one else stop taking this so damn serious.Remmember it's a hobby.It's supposed to be fun. 

Wow, thanks for sharing.

David

That is truly a wonderful dio!

But it is also 'apples and oranges' when comparing to Panzerguys' Bridge dio. No static material such as buildings or even trees. It is big....and very nice.

 Panz is portraying a scene from a film we all know.....where do you concentrate?.....where do yo cheap out? He was dead from the start....too little detail....people would criticize.....so he shot the bolt.....built to his satisfaction......and hoist on his own pitard(sic)

 No, not as dramatic as Doog or Manny's simply because of the size....the eye is drawn to too many places. He can't chainsaw it into vignettes!

 But we all know the film!.....and Panz captured it!