1/48 Revell P-51D vs. ProModeler P-51B tandem build COMPLETED !!!

Thanx Eric , yes it helped for the next time anyway...I thinned my black paint too much I think and by the time i got some color on the cowling it had already ran under...lesson learned

Check out my W.I.P. ficticious P-47  here in the forums

Sweet job on the NMF Brandon. =] That's come out nicely.  You're checkering worked out well too! I look forward to trying that out myself when I get the opportunity.   I've been away from the site for a while now since I've been on the road quite a bit with work, but I poke my head in here every now and then.  I've just caught up on some updates.

Can't wait to see what you've got next. Bring back the C!!    =]

Nearing the finish line on the -D. Decals today, some touch ups, odds and ends. Still fighting with the paint not wanting to stick. Gonna have to soil her up a bit to hide the eye sores. I was forced to clear the NMF because it was starting to rub off due to all the handling with masking and what not. That dulled the finish noticeably, now even it's trying to pull up in spots. I can't cut a break on this bird.

With regard to the checkering. I tried two different methods to do them as far as masking. One on the wing tips, the other on the cowl. On the wing tips I applied measured strips and then gently cut through the over-laps to get the checkers.

The other method I pre-cut tons of squares and hand fit each one to the cowl and watched my lines, whether or not I was straight, and took my time. Now I can say that the cowl method took longer, but they stuck down very well and I have had no issues with it.

The wing tips on the other hand is another story. The squares keep trying to lift and peel off every time I mask for something, requiring much touch up work. It sucks!! Use the cowl method and not the cut it on the plane method.

ON DECK the - C, which will be a much less messy operation. Looking forward to it with great enthusiasm.

OK, decals are done. Time for some weathering and a final seal with clear. Then final assy and get back on the -C.

That is beautiful Brandon.  I see nothing wrong with that NMF.  

Joe

Joe, I appreciate that. It comes as high praise hearing it from you. Thanks man!

Well, nearly there on the -D. The "dirty wash" wash is down and the surface has been cleaned. All the small paint details are done. Only thing left to do on this one is a quick clear coat, install the bay doors and landing gear as well as the canopy glass. I should have it done tomorrow and will post pics of it when it is ready. The -C is out and ready to get it finished now.

The -D is complete and sitting on the shelf. Thank Goodness !!! Thought that one would never get done. Anyway, here are the shots of it right after I finished it up. The right side photo shows some glue on the canopy as I literally had just set it. It is already dry and clear so you can't see it. Now I'll get that -C finished, but I am not doing near as much to it.

That's one beautiful looking P-51!!  Great job on the paint and weathering!

Steve

Thanks everyone for your kind words. After that build I think I may need therapy. Therapy being more building !! Am I right ?

Anyway, onward and upward with the -C "Hell-er-Bust".  I managed to get the flaps cut from the wings because I want to drop them. But I'm not going as far as I did with "Doll". I used a scribing tool to cut them off with and I got nice clean edges. 

Once that is done I use a rat tail file and channel out the inner edges of the flaps to make room and shape for the round stock I put in to give the flaps its upper curve as it enters the wings. Seen here.

I then take my time, and it does take a bit, to gently remove material along the upper wing edge on the inside to make them with as thin as possible to achieve a really nice tight fit for the round stock when they are placed on the wing. 

This is the area here where I am pointing. The lower edge also needs some work but not as much. Just enough, along with the flap, to make them fit just right. 

Once all the fine fitting is done you will have a nice fit to the wing. It is important to remember that there is a transition from the wing to the flaps where the flaps pull away from the wing, or roll down exposing the curve that is normally hidden in the wing and that the curve is not flush with the wing nor the flap, but slightly lower by the thickness of the surface skin. If that makes sense. So, if you position the round stock correctly it will not be totally flush with the flap or wing when installed, giving it the correct appearance.

The underside of the wing will also need some attention to get all these parts to align correctly and not look, out of place. It is hard to see in the photo but the flap just slips inside the wing, and we have a nice tight fit. Even if I am holding it with one finger. 

Now as you can see in the earlier shots of just the new flaps, the ends are open. I will cover them with sheet stock and trim to fit and finalize the fit to the wing and wing root completing this part. I will be using aluminum foil tape on the round stock to give it the unpainted look I want for that part being exposed. Then I will paint the flaps and the plane separately and assemble them during final assy. I learned from the last one that it is too hard to paint around them without getting pebbling. 

Nice job on that NMF.  =]  That's a keeper!

Ok, so work on the -B continues. Not a -C like I thought once I got to researching things. It's building up nicely and nearing paint. 

So, you experts out there need to chime in here if you find this info glaringly inaccruate. Based on my research I found Hell-er Bust P51B painted both OD over Neutral grey, and British Green over grey, both with the blue nose. In my research I learned that basically all planes left the plant painted US OD. And this lends itself to why you see so many people building the kit and painting that color. It would be correct. HOWEVER, I found a statement from a book about the 8th AF that lends a great deal of weight behind the idea that Heller Bust was indeed painted Green over grey. I'll quote it below.

""Mustang Aces of the Eighth Air Force" By Jerry Scutts that Heller's aircraft was delivered in Feb.'44 in natural metal and in May was painted using RAF paints at the unit and depot level."

If the plane was delivered in NMF form and painted at the depot, in England, then the plane would indeed be British green over grey as some have argued. Therefore, I intend to come up with the proper British Green over Grey codes that would have been used and paint the plane in those colors. UNLESS one of you uber experts on this can give me convincing evidence to the contrary. 

Please let me know your thoughts on this. I will be hopefully painting this weekend. 

Looks like the color is BS381-241, with and equivilant FS34079, both of which I can mix with Tamiya paints quite easily. Here is link comparing the two tones. Let me know what you think.

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=BS%20381C&cRef=BS381%20241&metallic2=False&cDescription=Dark%20green

Well I got the plane fully assembled and ready for primer. The flaps came out absolutely outstanding. The fit on this kit is just fabulous. I bought the kit used from Evil-bay and it was missing the pilots seat and only had the landing gear and instrument cluster assembled and paints, alone with the bay and bay doors. Other than that I have done everything else. The difference in this kit over the Revel -D is night and day, and the Revel kit really isn't too bad, IMO.

And a quick shot of the belly. Just tacked the bay doors in place to aid in painting, they will be removed later.

Now I have the kit fully primed and since I am Alcading under the main colors I needed to smooth up the primer surface some with 12000 grit wet dry paper. Well in the process I managed to loose the left rear quarter window. No idea where it went. I have looked all over the place to no avail. SO, I ordered a Squadron Vacuform canopy to fit the Monogram kit. I hope like the dickens that it will make due. I honestly don't know what else I can do. Does anyone know if that will fit, or at least be made to fit this kit?

This is a Malcom Hood plane and I just placed the regular section in place to keep paint out of the cockpit. SO, I guess my plans for getting it done before Thanksgiving just went out the window. RATS !!

Well after having slept on the idea of waiting for the new canopy I decided I would proceed without it. I will make something work even if I have to get a new kit and steal the canopy. So, I gave her a quick and dirtly Alclad Airframe Aluminum coating followed by a a quick covering of HAIR SPRAY. Then let that all dry up nice. It dries pretty fast. 

Then I proceeded to apply the white stripes and blue nose. I need to touch up the stripes just a tad but the blue nose came out perfect. I struggled to find just the right blue but settled on Model Masters French Blue Acryl thinned just a tad. I think I over thinned the white, but that is easily fixed. Anyway, this is where I finished off the weekend. Hopefully I can get more white on it Tuesday and perhaps the dark green on Wednesday. Fingers crossed.

Hope you enjoy the view of my shop where I have my paint booth. Lovely isn't it ? 

That D is stunning.  You should be proud.  The B is looking great too.  That blue nose color looks dead on.  Be careful though, I think there were different shades of blue with later 352nd birds being much darker, like on Preddy's last CAM III.  Hopefully you have good reference on which color Heller was. For what its worth, my research when I built England's 357th FG Missouri Armada showed the field painting on 8th AF Mustangs was old RAF stock, not OD over NG...  I look forward to your progress.

Joe

Joe,

It's kinda funny, I've only found one good photo, B&W, of this plane. I can't seem to locate any others. The -D he flew has tons of photos, but not this one. So, I'm going on that quote I found stating it was NMF to start and then painted "dark green" at the depot over grey. So, I asked "which Dark Green?"  The BS version, the FS version, or just his eye's version of dark green? So, I'm gonna error on the side of caution and paint it the FS shade, which is very close to the BS version and I'll lighten it up just a tad.

The reason to lighten it is that the chip will be the correct color, but when your eye sees the larger plane it  appears lighter than the chip, so I'll lust lighten it ever so much to pull off that effect. As far as the nose, I can't find any reference other than the instructions which called for it to be a lighter blue. (they also called for OD, which we know is wrong) I took a little liberty with it and pushed it closer to his -D blue nose. Judging by the B&W photo, it was probably lighter, but hey, artistic license.

Well gents, I finally found a great reference for this -B "Heller-Bust'. There isn't much out there for the -B model the Heller flew and only one photo I could find. But, last night I found a book on the 362nd that he flew in and it covered all the planes (10) in his squadron very well. I learned, as I had hoped, that the nose of 9 of the planes was indeed a darker blue, with only one pilot opting for lighter blue. The planes all arrived from the US in NMF form and were paint at the depot in British paint and codes for overseas duty. Most of the references called it OD but I found one first hand account that said the plane was "dark Green" over "grey". 

I then found a British orders sheet that called for BS-241 over British Medium Sea Grey for the paint required when used across the channel. So, I set about using my handy iModelKit app and found that OD and BS-241 are similar with the British color more grey and darker. I used the app to design a color using Tamiya paints that matched very closely the BS-241 and then lightened it up a tad as it is VERY dark green. So, dark in fact it appears a deep grey black. But lightening it up made the paint look just a bit more green. I then mixed up a batch of Medium Sea Grey in the same manner and lightened it just tad also. 

Using the photo for reference I painted the plane as it appeared in the photo which differs slightly from what the instructions called for, but you can tell in the B&W photo, its a dark color. The paint went down without a hitch and now it sets drying till tomorrow when I will shoot a coat of gloss over it and prepare for some decals and weathering. I think this color combination is much more accurate than what I've seen done before and I would not have been brave enough to go this dark if it weren't for my references. Enjoy!

That's a handy app ain't it! =]  I think it's a very useful tool for the modern modeler.  Nicely painted so far. =]

Well gentlemen, I'm afraid I've reached the end of the line on this build for a while. My decals, as I had feared are JUNK. Can't be saved, they just fall apart as soon as you touch them. I either need to completely repaint the plane to a different decal set or perhaps I'll buy the new Academy P-51B Blue Nose 12303 kit which has a paint scheme that is the same as my kit but with Invasion stripes added. I would use the kit decals on my kit and get something else to build that kit on. I need to think this over a bit.

EDIT: I've decided to make a fictitious P-51B Blue Nose. I will put on decals that are correct size, color and whatnot, with a made up tail number and side letters as well. I'm gonna rough it up and dirty it up good. So, it won't be "Hell-er Bust" but I haven't been able to find replacement decals and I'm not gonna do a complete repaint. This will have to do. I'll up date when it's done. 

Did you check Ebay? I know I've seen these markings on there from Eagle Strike or Aeromaster..

Joe

Joe,

I tore the internet apart looking for anyone's kit for that bird. Nothing !! I looked everywhere, all the decal makers, Ebay, overseas suppliers. No one has any. The Aeromaster's are discontinued and no one has any. I can get several more of that kit but it'll end up like the one I have anyway so for decals that's not an option.

I did take the time to figure out that all I need is nose art letters and side letters, everything else is common stuff. So, I spent hours searching through P-51 decal sets and managed to find two sets with enough odds and ends in lettering that I can come up with most of what I need. I will have to Frankenstein some to the letters to make what I need but I can do it. As far as the nose lettering is concerned, thank God it is simple Arial block letters. I found a source that sells decal sheets with very small letters with the largest size being just what I need. So, I will piece together the nose art one letter at a time that way. So, after all that work I WILL produce "HELL-ER-BUST". I'll post pics when I get the decaling started.

Alright gents we are back in the hunt. I got all the different decal sets in and I also got in the small letter decals I ordered off Ebay. I placed down the stars and bars, no biggie there, you can get them from any set. But since I can't get the Hell-er Bust decals anymore and I couldn't find any I was forced to get creative.

So, using individual letters from the sheet shown I lettered the nose. The size was spot on and the shape was very close. Working with such small individual decals is a bit of a challenge but it worked out pretty well. They scratched rather easy but that's ok because I am weathering this one up a bunch so they fit right in.

Here is where I am now. I will continue on to the side lettering next. Unfortunately I was unable to find letters that matched the style Heller used so I will be cutting up others to make them work. 

Just dropping in to make a quick update. The weathering is done and we are in final assembly. YEAH!!! 

Right now she is letting the gear dry in place. Only thing left is canopy install, bay doors, prop, side windows. I am pretty happy overall with this one. I had to make my own decals out of several kits and literally cut up letters to make the correct ones and then glue on pieces to get them to be "PZ  H", which I couldn't come up with in any kit anywhere. The decals for this plane are super hard to find and the lettering style appears very unique. More photos in a few days when I wrap this one up.

Ok, we are done with both of these kits. So a quick recap. I built them together to see which kit, the Revell or the ProModeler was the better kit overall. Both kits built nicely and I had really no troubles with either one but the PM kit was better detailed and the fit was better as well as the plastic was softer and easier to work with. Overall the PM kit is a better kit but the Revell kit is also just fine.

The only real issue I had with the Revell kit was my fault and that was the paint issue that forced me into an whole new area of modeling, but it worked out fine. The only problem I had with the PM kit was the decals, and again, not the kits fault, they were just too old. I was forced to use multiple -B decal sets, some decal surgery and some AM decals not intended for this to get it all to work and look like this -B.

So, here we are done and done. As promised I have heavily weathered the -B kit, mostly to try out new techniques. On this one I used the hair spray method for the chipping. I won't use it again as the paint is super easy to chip and very delicate. Tape pulls the paint with ease. I did use the Tamiya master weathering set on this one and I like how it worked out. I was able to get the plane to look heavily used and battle hardened. Exhaust stains, oil leaks, fuel stains all were done with this set and I am very pleased with the results. I even dirtied up the tires with the sand and mud the kits came with and I am pleased with the outcome. 

I will do another one of these without the heavy weathering and I know now that the decals just can't be had, at least not easily or often. So, I will stencil and paint the side letters next time but the nose are will be done with the decals I bought online as they are a near perfect match. Now that it is done I am pleased with my results. Not perfect but not bad either. Thanks for looking.  

Very nice job, Brandon!