WW 11 German aircraft Swastika decals??

Question: (Model-focused in order to not disturb the moderators, and we all should likely stay that way lest this thread turn into a flame-session, because all the fuel is here for one, it just needs a spark to go WHOOMP! So let's all shut up about the other crap. THis isn't the forum for that.)

Would you think that a model of a German WW2 figher or bomber that is a contest winner in every way be passed over by the judges for lack of a swastika?  Frankly, and speaking only for myself, I think that if it was on the real thing, it needs to be on the model...

 

 

If any of you would go visit any concentration camp today, I am sure there would not be any  more discussion on the subject. Some people decided long time ago to not display swastikas anymore. They knew why. If you did not experience what they did, do not question their decision.

 

Swastikas on the models is a modeller decision. 

subfixer wrote:

Why hasn't the Rising Sun been abolished, what with the rape of Nanking and the murder of POWs by the Japanese? I am by no means saying that it should be, as it is an ancient symbol of Japan, but why wasn't it banned, too?

The Rising Sun Flag with the 16 rays was abolished from 1945 until 1954, when the Japanese Self Defense Forces were established.

GS

subfixer wrote:

Why hasn't the Rising Sun been abolished, what with the rape of Nanking and the murder of POWs by the Japanese? I am by no means saying that it should be, as it is an ancient symbol of Japan, but why wasn't it banned, too?

Good observation I see guys racing around in import tuners with Hino maru decals. I guess the difference is the politcal underpinnings, after all the germans nat insg has always been some variation of the balken kruez.  Comparing the A bombs to the war crimes of the axis is just wrong headed.  Civil bombardment was a necsasary albeit lamentable evil.  At the time an invasion of Japan against an organized military was considered untenable, so bombing cities would keep the enemy unbalanced & less able to marshall a defence.  It by no means compares to the systematic depravity of say the march from Bataan.

A good analogy; the swastika and the Confederate battle flag. What other symbols of defeated regimes or movements are being suppressed? Why hasn't the Rising Sun been abolished, what with the rape of Nanking and the murder of POWs by the Japanese? I am by no means saying that it should be, as it is an ancient symbol of Japan, but why wasn't it banned, too?

You make some good some good points Roguepink. If a jew can keep it in perspective we can all lighten up. Also the symbal was used by classical greece, the native americans use it to represent the thunderbird,(My fathers unit, the 45th inf Div replaced it with thunderbird in 1933).  Having said that I'll go one better, My Hasagawa P47's has an optional decal of the victory hashmarks showing 28 little german battle ensigns sans swastika.  Are we so fragile that even showing it to illustrate how 28 of em were sent to their doom is still too offensive. If so than excuse me, I have to change out of my big boy pants now!.

There is a very thorough article, including the ban in Germany, on Wiki. One thing worth pointing out to the original poster is that the ban is a complete one against reproduction in any form of a symbol of an outlawed party. Model kits are IMHO an innocent victim, if you will.

I cannot second guess their reasons, but with all due respect, it has to do with bigger issues in their eyes than PC. I would assume the law is used to prevent the publication of inflammatory newsletters, or the gathering of Brownshirts in public places, which is certainly an ongoing concern in Germany.

I cannot think of an analogy here in the USA, however. I suppose the Confederate battle flag. Hmmm? Otherwise I think we're pretty free to display what we want and take comments afterwards.

Just my

Let's try to stay on topic.  Hiroshima / Nagasaki is not the question.

I had this debate with the marketing people at Cox when I was designing decals for their Fw-190 and Bf-109 flying models.  They objected because the Swastika was a symbol of evil, hatred, fear, and did not belong on their models.  Nevermind that the airplanes themselves were weapons of evil, hatred, and fear just as much as the symbol carried on the tail.

My view is that as long as we try to bury the Swastika, we consent to give it power as a symbol of terror.  The only way to destroy that power is to bring the symbol into the light and have it become so common it no longer evokes an emotional response.  Education is also a great tool for destroying the power of a symbol.  The Swastika, as many people know, was taken from Buddhism where it was a symbol of luck and fortune.  Also, examples of it could be found in American architecture and design as late as the 1920's.

Those who forget (bury, ignore, delete, or deny) history are doomed to repeat it.

I include swastikas on my German airplanes.  I am also Jewish.  There you go.

deeve wrote:

Don't forget the Americans dropping an atomic bomb on a civillian centre or then dropping incendiaries on Tokyo...

The Twentieth Air Force ran out of military targets!

Once the industrial centers were destroyed and they didn't give up, the United States Army Air Force started putting areas that had dense concentrations of workers homes on the target lists. We put a torch to the enemy.

100% fact.

To me, its crazy. You have to think what these political correctness numptys are actually thinking.

Do they think if they dont print pictures of the swastika, then loony right wingers wont start fascist parties? Or what about the youngster who looks at the empty squre on the tail and says 'Whats that Daddy?' Daddy will, im sure, explain to sproggo exactly what it is and what it represents. I bet you fifty bucks he doesnt say...'and you make sure you dont become a Fascist son'

Deleting the swastika serves no purpose at all. Germany is a country that will always have the legacy of WW 11 (Hammer ) and IMO the best way to move forward is by not trying to hide any of its past, be open about the lot. That way theres no secrets to uncover or have an exciting mystique about them.

Just my worth.

...Guy

I am working on the Revell Germany Junkers G-38. The instruction sheets calls for the rudders to be painted red. The decal sheet includes small white circles for the swastika. I obtained the ones I need to complete the model from Squadron. The Aero Master line of decals has swastikas in a variety of sizes.

deeve wrote:

Don't forget the Americans dropping an atomic bomb on a civillian centre or then dropping incendiaries on Tokyo.

Hiroshima was a city of industrial and military significance. A number of military camps were located nearby, including the headquarters of the Fifth Division and 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan. Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops.

 

WW 11 German aircraft Swastika decals??

World War Eleven?

Don't forget the Americans dropping an atomic bomb on a civillian centre or then dropping incendiaries on Tokyo.

 

Anyways. On the subject, there are a few companies making aftermarket swastikas. I bought a sheet of 1/48 ones for around $10 canadian dollars. They have ones on the sheet specifically for 109s, 190s, he111s.

 

Just a nuisance having to get them aftermarket. I still havent found a 1/72 sheet of them. I ended up buying some printable decal sheets. I used white sheets, printed the swastikas black then trim around them for the white outline.

 

imo the swastikas shouldnt be banned its a no brainer its as if the world is trying to deny the existance of the nazis and thats a BAD idea

Generally speaking, European marketing laws do not permit the displaying of Swastika on packaging of any sort. That is why you don't see Swastikas on box art, the packaging would be illegal under European marketing regulations.

It is not illegal for a kit manufacturer to produce a decal sheet for their kit that includes the Swastika, but for European marketing rules, the graphic has to be broken up into fragments of the image that the modeler themselves will assemble while decaling the model. This extends not only to the Swastika on German subjects, but also the Swastika in the WWII Finnish roundel.

Swastikas and the manufacture of them are outlawed in Germany. Possibly in other European countries. And rightly so. The debate as to wether a decal placed on a historic model to make it accurate goes on. I did place them on my Bismark model as it is part of the ship. They were large on the ship and I don't see how one can  build a 1/350 Bismark without them.

For instance Bob Ballards fine book on the Bismark shows the swastikas, and that did not create controversy because it is the reporting of history. A model is the representation of history. My decals were Superscale and made in the US.

On the other hand my Trumpeter BR-52 came without them however they were small in scale so I just used the kit decals without them.