1/48 Trumpeter P-40B Flying Tigers (Work in Progress) FINISHED...

That's a great start! I love the P-40. It just has a great look to it. When you get to the painting stage, Steel Beach has a mask set for the camo scheme that's quite handy.

Nice green shade Joe, and nice choice for a kit. Those old Cutting Edge resin parts are sure missed by me as well, although you can find a lot on ebay but for ridiculous prices. I like that green shade. I've read the area behind the seat that shows through the rear windows is the same color as the exterior, and not always interior green. But I'll leave that call up to you.

Looking good, Joe.

Also looking forward to watching your build progress. I've also never built a Trumpeter (had never heard of them recently), so you are my official Trumpeter tester now. :)

Can't believe that kit seat. Didn't realise things could be that far out of scale in any kit. I guess I have a lot to learn.

Looking good as usual Joe, remarkable work on the office, never use much AM stuff but I can see why it makes a huge difference.  Even though the P-40 is not my favorite plane if it is of interest to your daughter, THAT is what's important.  Great to keep the kids curiosity of these magnificent machines and history surrounding them.  I have a B-36 (my only non WWII kit) waiting to be finished for my 8 yr old so it can hang from his ceiling.

That's a great cockpit, Lawdog and a vast improvement over the kit parts.   If it matters, Trumpeter made the same seat mistake in the 1/32 version...

I agree with "Reasoned", keep the kids involved! My daughter picked out a 1/48 P-51D, so naturally, I finished it in the markings of "Daddy's Girl"! Her next selection is also a "shark mouth",  a 1/48 F6F from VF-27 aboard USS Princeton.

lawdog I do believe bronze green was used on early US P-40's(probably up to Pearl Harbor).  But seeing  as the Kittyhawk II was built for the RAF it would have been painted to the stringent RAF painting guidelines which would have included RAF interior green for the cockpit. And the P-40's the flying tigers recieved were Kittyhawk II's and would have been recieved with the RAF interior green cockpits. But seeing as you did the bronze green interior you can paint it as a US P-40 in Olive Drab over Neutral Gray but your dorsal spine behind the cockpit would need to be fuselage color not bronze green.

Oh BTW I have the same kit but I got the Eduard Big ED set.

Also Flying Tiger KittyHawk II's had the RAF Roundels painted over before the ROC national insignia was painted on. There are reference pics online to back this up.

lawdog114

 

CE recommends Bronze Green for early P-40s.  I had no reason to object so I sought the Tamiya equivalent online.  The forum I found recommended one part XF-81 RAF Green, one part XF-5 Flat Green, and two parts XF-8 Flat Blue.  It seemed too blue to me so I cut it back a bit on the blue.   I sprayed XF-1 Flat Black as a shadow then sprayed down my concoction.  I painted the seat Alclad Duraluminum since I've never seen an early P-40 seat that was painted.  I did my usual painting and weathering process which was then sealed with Testor's dull coat.  I have one gripe about the CE instrument panel.  Its nicely detailed but a set this costly should have film dials.  I supposed they wanted to test our painting skills.  I started assembly and heres where I'm at so far

More to come,

Joe

 

This is looking very nice so far.  I hope to one day get around to doing Pap Boyington's Flying Tiger from this time.  I'm interested to see how Trumpter's kit adds up.  I've heard the same about their riveting. =]

Keep it comin.

I was looking at buying this very kit recently, will be watching with much interest! As usual Joe, your work is looking superb!

Mikeym_us

lawdog I do believe bronze green was used on early US P-40's(probably up to Pearl Harbor).  But seeing  as the Kittyhawk II was built for the RAF it would have been painted to the stringent RAF painting guidelines which would have included RAF interior green for the cockpit. And the P-40's the flying tigers recieved were Kittyhawk II's and would have been recieved with the RAF interior green cockpits. But seeing as you did the bronze green interior you can paint it as a US P-40 in Olive Drab over Neutral Gray but your dorsal spine behind the cockpit would need to be fuselage color not bronze green.

Interesting and thanks for the information.  I'm surprised CE did not mention this, since it seemed they were thorough in their research.  Oh well.  I'm doing an AVG P-40 (still unkown which) but unfortunately Its too late for me to correct the cockpit color.  I should however be able to fix the dorsal window area when the time comes.  I shall endeavor to get the color scheme right.  With this said, I wonder why so many people paint their pits on early AVG P-40s interior green or the like?  Actually, I've never seen one in RAF interior grey green yet (not to say they are not out there)...

...and thank you all of the compliments so far.  I'm diligently getting the frame together and should have pics soon..

Joe

Thanks again for all the compiments.  As I said, I have been working fairly diligently on getting the air frame together.  This kit has been no walk in the park for me thus far.  I've had some trouble getting the CE cockpit to fit right, specifically the instrument panel and the piece of the fuselage that attaches above it.  Your supposed to glue the 50 cal breaches to the bottom of this piece and attach the top engine cover to the front of it, while fishing the gun barrel through the respective holes up front.  Perhaps it was operator error but I had trouble getting this area to fit right.  I used Evergreen shims inside to keep everything aligned.  After a bit of sanding here and there I think its passible. 

I then turned my attention to the wings and landing gear bays.  I assembled the gear bay which reminded me of a Eduard kit with the separate piece.  The flap roof detail was nice but are marred with sink holes (so were the flaps).  Trumpeter supplied photoetch to blank off the center fuselage at the flaps which looks cool.  I sprayed everything XF-1 Flat Black as a pre shade.  I mixed up my own version of zinc chromate with Tamiya XF-4 Yellow Green and XF-58 Olive Green then sprayed it down to a nice weathered appearance.  Everything then got a post shade.  Due to the aforementioned sink holes everywhere, which are in tough spots to fix, I will probably only open the flaps up enough so you know they are there.   

I got the frame together without issue.  I like how you have the option to drop the rear stabilizers.  I will probably do this.  I have a bit of sanding and filling to do at the wing root, nothing serious, then it should be ready for primer.  Here's where I left off.

Joe  

That's lookin' really nice, Joe.

Glenn

Your build looks great! Thanks for sharing your work - inspiration to break out a P-40 in my stash!

I've found personally that XF-4 Yellow Green is a pretty good match for Yellow Zinc Chromate. This build will be a great test of how you will be able to get the RAF Camo scheme done. Don't forget that with these AVG P-40B's the RAF Roundels were painted out.

Here is a photo of a Tiger rear glass showing the paint scheme:

cecomhistorian.armylive.dodlive.mil/.../Flight-leader-and-fighter-ace-Robert-RT-Smith-stands-next-to-his-P-40-fighter-at-Kunming-China-The-Flying-Tiger-insignia-was-created-by-the-Walt-Disney-Company-Courtesy-USAF.jpg

Good work Joe. How did the main parts fit? (wings and fuselage)? Another little thing trumpy got wrong was the port side radio access hatch. They molded it raised and it should be flush with the fuselage. So if you feel like sanding.... I have the U.S. equivalent colors for the RAF in Gunze matches if your interested.

Thanks for the compliments all....

Mikeym...I agree, I just prefer a bit more olive green in my ZC.  I rarely paint straight from the bottle.  Reference the roundels I intent to cut out some old British roundels and blue tac them down to serve as masks after the Dark Earth is applied.  Interestingly, I've seem pics of AVG P-40s with both the British roundels and Chinese markings on top of the wings at the same time.  That looks a bit silly to me though so I'll probably built a subject sans this feature.  

Rich....thanks for the reference photo.  Nice color too.  I wasn't convinced that dorsal area was not the interior color on AVG birds until now. This certainly proves it.

Nathan...thanks, the fit was was good, not great as mentioned earlier in the upper cowl area.  I needed a tad of putty at wing root areas but I suppose I could have eliminated that by attaching the top wings to the fuselage first.  I'm still scratching my head about the radio hatch....what were they thinking?  If I should suddenly feel ambitious, I may scribe around it to make new panel lines and then sand it flush.  Thanks for the Gunze offer, but the only colors in Gunze line that I have are the main RLM shades and US Olive Drab.  Perhaps you have the Dupont equivalent for Tamiya paints?  

Joe  

If you want good reference for the interior color of the AVG P-40's watch the movie God is my Co-Pilot the true story of AVG pilot Robert "Scotty" Scott. Oh and if you get ahold of any P-40E's the AVG used those too.

BTW those members from Macon will know who I am talking about.

Found more Tiger photos on Google Images and found this collection of photos:

www.asisbiz.com/.../USAAF-23FG.html

It also shows the early E models that the Tigers received before they became the 23rd FG.

And a video on the Tigers on YouTube: Wings Over China

If you want good reference for the interior color of the AVG P-40's watch the movie God is my Co-Pilot the true story of AVG pilot Robert "Scotty" Scott. Oh and if you get ahold of any P-40E's the AVG used those too.

Mikeym, I wouldn't use the film as an absolute reference for the P-40B-C's used by the AVG.  I haven't seen the film yet, but according to Wikipedia, it uses three of the fake P-40's that were built for the movie "Flying Tigers".

Here is the cockpit of the USN aviation museum's P-40B which looks like it has been restored meaning it could be inaccurate like a bunch of museum restorations.  It originally was sent to Russia during the war.

http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/nnam/virtualtour/#MUSEUM/COCKPITS/P-40/P-40

The reason why they do not have dials is because they are of the early resin sets, Aires has their instrument panels with the metal face and a dial film backing. Looks good.

Sorry, Joe. I'm not too familiar with Tamyia, but I just read on Britmodeller that XF-81 for Dark Green and XF-52 for Dark earth but it needs some tweaking as -52 is too red... Hope it helps

Thanks for the helpful info guys.  Mikey, I never knew they did a movie about Scott.  Interestingly, I built his P-40E on commission a few years ago, so I have to see that movie now.  Rich, thanks for the link.  Those are some sweet pictures.  Constructor, I figured it was an early product since their Spitfire MK V pit had dial if I recall correctly.  Its not a deal breaker to me, but just a nice addition when they are designed that way.  Nathan, thanks for the paint suggestions.  I'm going to use the XF-81 for the RAF Green, but for the Dark Earth, I'm going to mix XF-52 Flat Earth and XF-68 NATO Brown.  A guy in a book I have used this concoction on his AVG P-40 and it looks great.  Unfortunately he did not provide the ratio, so I'll just have to mess around with the mixture till it looks right to me.

Joe      

Unfortunately Summer related activities has made my bench time limited.  I have however been able to pick at this P-40 here and there.  After getting the frame together, I decided I didn't like the inner flap detail, so I sanded it off then rebuilt it from scratch with styrene rod and strip secured with Tenax.  Its nothing fancy and I'm not even sure its correct, but I like the way it turned out.  

The airframe has been primed with Alclad Grey Micro Filler then any sloppy seams and such were fixed.  I still didn't like fit of the piece in front of the windscreen, so I re-sanded and scribed it.  Its still not perfect but its good enough.  I lost the top rudder hinge under the bench so I scratch built a new one out of styrene. 

The frame was then preshaded with XF-1 Flat Black.  All those rivet lines.....Oye Yoi Yoi.  I can confide at this point that I feel they are a tad overdone on this kit.  Hopefully the paint will hide them a bit.  I went a bit heavy on the primer to aid me in this endeavor.

I have the Sky Decals sheet 48-047 which has several AVG P-40 subjects (I already did Col. Scott's P-40E from the sheet a few years ago).  I do know I want to do a Hell's Angel 3rd Pursuit  plane, but I can't decide which.  A couple on the sheet are from the 3rd, to include Smith's #77 and the commonly done Older's #68.  I suppose I'll have to decide soon.  For now, I sprayed the 3rd group's red fuselage with XF-7 Flat Red band then taped it off. 

My research revealed that AVG P-40Bs were done in US equivalent to RAF colors because most of these turkeys were originally England bound.  I guess they were called "Dupont" colors, who I assume had manufactured the paint.  This was reportedly RAF Green and Dark Earth over grey or blue.  That said, everything I read about the lower surface colors seemescontradictory.  Some said it was light blue, while others said Light Grey.  My thought is that If the upper surface was supposed to look like a Hurricane and Spitfire, then why wasn't the lower surface of Duck Egg?  Anyways, I went with Light Grey XF-19.  Truthfully, this whole AVG color stuff is starting to give me a headache so I will exercise the "what looks right to me" approach from this point on.   I'm the type of modeler that will do the research and if I don't find the answer I'm looking for, I revert back to the "artistic license" approach.  I'm a "close enough" kind of guy.  Anyways, I sprayed the XF-19 Light Grey on the lower surface.  It looks good to me.

I then added XF-2 Flat White and added condensation streaks along the bottom.  Some people lighten the middle of panels and such but I prefer this weathering technique.  On grey it leaves a nice splotchy effect. 

Here's a shot with a dry fit of the flaps (I still have to paint the inner surface).  The added detail does make a difference and I'm glad I decided to bite the bullet and do it.

I finished off the lower surface with a post shade of a diluted XF-69 NATO Black and XF-64 Red Brown mix.  Its heavily diluted with 91% Isprophyl alcohol (I keep it premixed in a glass jar).  I get in close with low pressure, about 5 or 10 psi and concentrate around the engine, guns and control surfaces.  I try not to over do it.  To me this final touch brings the paint to life and transforms it from a grey piece of plastic to a well used warbird.  To my eye, this is about right but I suppose it could stand a bit more.  Maybe later.

I'm going to tape off the canopies and start the "Dupont" Dark Earth and RAF Green soon. 

Joe  

Some more light reading on RAF color schemes from one researcher:

amair4raf.blogspot.com/.../colours-of-rafavg-tomahawks-part-one.html

BTW Steel Beach accessories makes a paint mask for the P-40 RAF Scheme that has comes with 2 sheets of the same mask in case you goof up. But if done carefully enough you have enough masks for 4 P-40's.

Accurate or not, those inner flap details look great Joe! Always enjoy watching your paintwork bring a subject to life.

Looking very nice indeed. I love the P-40 and everything about the AVG. I've built every plane Tex Hill flew from his Navy days to reassignment back to the US in 1/48.   Love to see more as you progress.

Thanks guys.  Modeling and Summer don't seem to mix.  Bench time is getting rare lately.   Last night I got some quality time in.  I turned my attention to the Dupont upper surfaces.  I custom mixed my own version of the dark earth by mixing 1 part XF-52 Flat Earth, 1 part XF-68 NATO Brown, then 1 part XF-64 Red Brown. I cut it with Tamiya Laquer thinner and sprayed it down.  It looks good to my eye.  This was then cut with XF-57 Buff and the upper surface was streaked.  A bit more Buff was added and I lightened the fabric control surfaces. 

Most of the pictures of AVG P-40s that I've seen show that the old RAF roundels had been blanked out to dark earth.  To reproduce this effect, I cut out some old Hasegawa Roundels and taped then down to the surface to serve as masks for where these used to be.  The Sky instructions for the camo scheme were non-existent.  I found a diagram for the Eagle Cal decal sheet online and used it for a general reference.   I rolled up Blue Tac for a slighty soft edge.  I know these were hard edged on the real plane, but I just don't like hard edges on my RAF schemes....they look too toy-like to me. 

I sprayed XF-81 RAF Dark Green in close at low pressure to avoid over spray. I then added XF-57 Buff to the green and streaked it as well. 

I think the port wing needs a bit more green camo in the roundel area.  I messed something up here.  I must have interpreted the picture wrong (it was dark and of poor quality).  Other than that I'm pleased.  After a postshade of certain panel lines around the engine and control surfaces, I sprayed it with Alclad Gloss for decals.  I went very heavy with several coats in the hope it will help diminish the size of the rivets.  I'll let it cure for a few days. 

On a side note, I figured I would do a brief tutorial on how I paint props and get the yellow warning tips all the same size.   First, I spray the prop XF-2 Flat White then the tips XF-3 Flat yellow mixed with touch of XF-7 Flat red to orange it up a bit.  It should look something like this.....

Break out the Tamiya tape and cut a strip to a length that will go from the hub to the bottom of where you want the warning tip color to stop.  Once you establish the correct length, cut up more Tamiya tape and tape off the tips (the area to stay yellow).  I take a piece (make it wide enough to cover the top), fold it, then slip it over the top until it hits the top of the length of tape.  Like these.....

Work your way around.  It will look like this once done...

We are now ready to paint it.  I use XF-69 NATO Black for my props.  Its slightly less stark that flat black and almost has a greenish grey hue to it.  Spray light coats until the yellow disappears.  Cut it with 91% Isoprophyl so is dries almost on impact.  This prevents bleed under. 

Here's the finished product. Perfect painted props everytime. 

One question though.........whats with the goofy angle (pitch?) of the Trumpeter prop?  I've never seen one at such an angle.  I was going to fix it but I decided not to mess with it. 

Joe