Interior green or aluminum?

you and me both ;-) But I am slowly making headway on my stash...

Could we incorporate a little box at the bottom of the screen which would indicate "for fun", and maybe "contest entrant" so we could all judge accordingly.  My judgment is base on whether someone actually builds the kit rather than just moves them from one storage location to another!  (I'm getting really good at that!)

That should actually be our attitude.

I asked a friend on another board about it (He is a WW2 vet and was a mechanic) and he doesn't remember. He will think about it. Any time a plane was fixed it was painted if they had time. The paint is whatever they had.

nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!! rivet counters suk!!  glue, paint, & be merry!!! i'm outta here, I've got a spitfire and buffalo with my name on them! (and i'm NOT, I say again NOT!! counting any rivets or obsess about the perfect color of olive drab! obsession is a baaaaaddd thing! put down the paint chip chart, and take two steps back slowly) later peeps!

hear, hear!!  this hobby is supposed to be fun, I build 'em to the best of my ability, if mine look as good or better than the kits on the box then that's ok by me

Thank you all for the very lively discussion regarding the wheel covers of a P-51D. I am not a rivet counter nor am I a stickler for accuracy. In fact if a like a certain model no matter what I read about it (except bad fit) I will go for it. I was just confused when the instruction gave me aluminium color for the wheel covers but references say otherwise. So thank you all for your guidance.

You're response was right on the money Stik. Informative and helpful. Nuff said.

This discussion has brought to mind something that I have encountered over the years as a minister. When trying to teach the flock some great truth of the Scriptures there is one obstacle that always shows itself. It is "I believe what I believe; do not confuse me with the facts." You know, it is all in the presentation! I am thankful for the so-called rivet counters; I do not have the patience or vision to count them anymore.

Stick said exactly what I was going to respond with. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with you or anyone wanting exacting accuracy. The OP of this thread asked because he wants that accuracy, so I see nothing wrong with it. However, I've seen plenty of newbies at other forums run off by people making ridiculous comments about color, or not moving a panel line that was 2mm off on a kit, or not fixing some other perceived "inaccuracy." And its alway seems to be prefaced or followed up with "just pointing it out in case you wanted to know ." You know...as if the person is trying to be friendly and offer some education when in fact it's more along the lines of "I get personal satisfaction by flaunting my supposed expertise and tearing your efforts down." But you go ahead and believe what you will.

I can't speak for how others use the term "rivet counter." For me it's a derogatory term for people who offer their "expert" opinions about accuracy when they haven't been solicited. If someone (like the OP) is asking for info then the term doesn't apply IMO.

Well said Stik!  Thanks!! 

Gary

I think that the hobby gets both from the "rivit counters". Yes, the quest for more detail and improved accuracy from modelers has lifted kits to the degree that they are today. But we have also seen, either here or on other forums, where the "hexperten" has come down on a newbie like a ton of bricks over a color choice, or some other faux paus. And then the new guy disappears, turned off by the response. It's all in the delivery of the message. Yes, this time we had a good civil discussion that put out lots of information enabling anyone who read all of it to take the information given, make a decision, and have some factual basis for their choice. This time it was done well.

TacoSalad

On a side note I'd say not to be so obsessive about 100% accuracy and use some artistic license. The hobby is being ruined by the rivet counters who run new builders away from forums with their BS obsessiveness. There is itching wrong with personally wanting to be accurate, but the shunning of those who choose not to be is another story

Not another one of these "your ruining the hobby" posts.  The hobby is NOT being ruined by "rivet counters".  The hobby is being IMPROVED by them.  If it weren't for those evil rivet counters, kits would still have the accuracy of Aurora and Hawk kits of the 60's (yes I am old enough to remember when that is all we had to go with).  How does a discussion on colors ( a non-personal, non-confrontational one at that) run new builders away?  No one anywhere in this thread said "don't paint your model this color it is wrong and you are a terrible builder" or anything like that.  No one is shunning anyone away from the forum or the hobby.  A person ASKED for advice on the color of something.  Several different opinions were posted.  The OP now has a wealth of information for make his own decision on how he wants to paint his model.  Isn't this what a DISCUSSION board is for?  To DISCUSS the aspects of models?  Or would you rather the Forums here be like a couple others out there that are just "good job- greatest model I've ever seen" type ego-boosting useless messages?

I'd say that about covers it. Factory fresh- Aluminum, one that has been in service , field applied lacquer or zinc chromate, tinted or not...

TacoSalad

On a side note I'd say not to be so obsessive about 100% accuracy and use some artistic license. The hobby is being ruined by the rivet counters who run new builders away from forums with their BS obsessiveness. There is itching wrong with personally wanting to be accurate, but the shunning of those who choose not to be is another story

^^^this!

I think we need to understand that what generally is, what should be, and what is may be three different scenarios. Suppose a P-51B comes off the assembly line with unpainted wheel wells. After a year of service, it is discovered that the various grades of aluminum are interacting and causing corrosion. So they spray it with a zinc chromate (maybe yellow, maybe green depends on what is on hand). What color wheel wells does that P-51B have? Well, it depends on when you are looking at it! But our best understanding is that they should be Aluminum. But, that does not make our favorite brand P-51B model with zinc yellow chromate wheel wells wrong!  I want to thank everyone for their insight and contributions on this question.

Ok, thanks.  May tap into your B-17 knowledge at some time.  Cheers.

Everyone has their opinions that they mistake as "fact." As mentioned above,  Dana Bell is considered a leading expert not because he has a forum account and access to Google images and Wilipedia, but because he has done years of research not google search. In short it's either going to be aluminum lacquer with a yellow spar, all NMF or all yellow chromate. He's concluded that there is no definitive delineation as to which airframes received which.

On a side note I'd say not to be so obsessive about 100% accuracy and use some artistic license. The hobby is being ruined by the rivet counters who run new builders away from forums with their BS obsessiveness. There is itching wrong with personally wanting to be accurate, but the shunning of those who choose not to be is another story

Bronto, thanks for your input. It was very helpful!

Great discussion and good info links.

That is very possible. Tamiya has done that sort of thing before. I read somewhere about their P-51 kits having a reinforcement plate on the upper wing surface that was added post war over the landing gear. On their original T-34 kit, they have tow lugs molded in place on the front that were added to the Aberdeen T-34 they used for their model subject, but not on standard tanks.

May I ask a question. Is it maybe the color of the instructions were based on restored aircafts from which they based the model from?

This has always been my "Bible" on building the Tamiya P-51 B or D.  This guy seems to know what he's talking about, or is at least confident in that regard.  Its worth a gander.....

modelingmadness.com/.../tmc51d.htm

Joe

Shipwreck

And, Bronto if you read this, I am not necessarily looking for photos of 43-12102 (I have lots of them). I am looking for confirmation that she had aluminum wheel wells. Everything I have points that way; I would like to see some firm evidence if you have it! Or, I like two or three witnesses. Thanks for offering!

Shipwreck -

    I know I have one photo showing aluminum on the inside of the outer gear bay doors, I can't remember if I have others.

CNicoll

Bronto,  Can I ask what are your sources?  I am also building the Tamiya P-51D and the general consensus I found looking at various websites, discussions and pictures is that yellow ZC was applied at the factory, but was often over-sprayed in the field whenever any work was done with green ZC.  I have not found any source that said planes left the factory bare metal.

I'm at the painting phase for the wheelwells so very interested in the topic.  Thanks!

My sources are many photos, NA factory procedures for the P-51, and about 30 years of studying the P-51 (ask me about P-51's and B-17's I will probably have the answer, any other aircraft not to certain).  Originally it specified 1 coat of untinted ZC, followed by 1 coat of tinted ZC, followed by 1 coat of aluminum.  This changed over time to both reduce production time, and to eliminate the use of aluminum powder for paint.  All P-51's from some time early in the "B" production (I have been unable to track down the exact serial when it happened) left the factory with either bare aluminum gear bays, or possible with bare metal gear bays with the wing spar (which made up the rear "wall" of the gear bay) painted in untinted ZC.

Please understand, in my prior post, I printed out the interior colors called out by the kit manufactures only to show that they are not that far off! Are they right? Certainly not! The only way anybody can be right is to own a time machine, go back to a point in time in the forties, and look at the colors on the plane. The best we can do is look back into history (research) and speculate. Unless, of course, if we happen to dig up a well preserved wreck.

And, Bronto if you read this, I am not necessarily looking for photos of 43-12102 (I have lots of them). I am looking for confirmation that she had aluminum wheel wells. Everything I have points that way; I would like to see some firm evidence if you have it! Or, I like two or three witnesses. Thanks for offering!

Bronto,  Can I ask what are your sources?  I am also building the Tamiya P-51D and the general consensus I found looking at various websites, discussions and pictures is that yellow ZC was applied at the factory, but was often over-sprayed in the field whenever any work was done with green ZC.  I have not found any source that said planes left the factory bare metal.

I'm at the painting phase for the wheelwells so very interested in the topic.  Thanks!