See New Thread: Greg Boyington F4U-1A 883 Finished....

looks great so far,keep it up!

yea I have had a bad experience with resin also.i ordered a detail kit from verlinden for a bf 109 and upon inspecting the parts I noticed about half were broke and the other half were very poorly molded,needless to say I was pretty upset to pay 30 bucks for something that was unuseable.

You're off to a good start.  The IP looks good to me - Micro set will help the decal melt down over the IP.  Nice save on the seat as well.  I've used the Ultra Cast seats before and they are quite nice.

Steve

Ray I'm not surprised at all! I knew it wouldn't be long before you cracked it open. =] great start on the cockpit. If you're looking to take off some of that stark white from the IP, I might suggest dry brushing a little mix of flat black and something either in the blue-grey to grey range mixed with it. Once you have the color the way you like it, lightly blot the paint brush so that there's only just enough to leave a hint of color. Then just touch up the IP to what you fancy. The good news about this is that the cockpit is always dark when it's all closed up anyhow.  So none of this will stand out too much.

=] keep it coming Ray!

Looking good so far!

    I managed to get a little work done today, and completed the engine.  For my first go at building one I was very happy with it.  After priming, I hit the cylinders with Tamiya's x-10 gun metal, the fire wall with xf-1 flat black, and most of the front part of the engine housing with xf-23 light blue.  Then I went back and weathered the cylinders with a very thin flat black dry brushed in; followed by highlighting the metal tubing that runs along side of the cylinders with chromate.. After that I dry brushed the areas painted light blue with XF-3 Yellow Green and a very light coating of Tamiya's smoke.  I mixed some chromate and red/brown, x-64 I think, along with a smidge of red to create a rusted metal color and dry brushed the bolts and the sides of the prop plate.  Again, I'm going for a war wary and run down Corsair.  I found a couple of pics of worn out PW R-2800s in static display and I got pretty close to it.  The yellow/green (Yellow Chromate) is less pronounced in reality, blending in with the blue to a point that it looks as if one has worn into the other.  Again, constructive criticism is appreciated....

    By the way, a quick correction, and one I've already corrected above.  214 had made it to Vella LaVella by Dec. 27...  Munda seemed wrong when I initially wrote it, and the correct location finally hit me later... I hope you enjoy the pics, Raymond

hope you enjoy the pics, Raymond

Beautiful work Ray!.  Hard to believe its your first "big boy" model.....lol.  The IP decal can be tricky sometimes, but yours looks okay to me.  I had issues with the one on 915.  I rarely use Micro set, just Micro Sol. Try hitting it with dull coat then putting a drop of 5 minute epoxy or Future on the dials to simulate glass lenses.  

Nice work on that R-2800.  Have you considered a wash to bring out the detail even more?  A simple way is to create a "sludge" wash, buy mixing some black or gray pastel chalk, a few drops of dish washing detergent, and water.  I used to do this before I discovered the Detailer wash, which is essentially the same thing.   Here's a neat article on how to do this..

http://www.arcair.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT026-Chalk-Washes/00.shtm

I look forward to your progress.  

Joe

Lookin' great, Ray! I grew up on the "Baa Baa Blacksheep" TV show, and wondered for years where Vella Lacava was (no such thing...they were at Munda and Vella Lavella), and why his real plane wasn't solid dark blue. Learned to be careful with video references.

Thanks for the idea Joe.  I'll take a look at the reference and go from there.  I thought about adding the wires that you did, but decided it looked okay as is, and I didn't want to muck up the works.  Still, there are several layers involved...  I  really do like the idea of toning it down a little more...

Mississippivol, yeah, I did the same.  As a matter of fact, I looked up "The Flying Misfits" (the pilot to Black Sheep) a few weeks ago on you tube just to re-live it ;-)  I will say that as historically inaccurate as the series was, including the pilot, there is a healthy hint of truth to it.  Casey, the ops officer was one of Greg's pilots, who happened to be the pilot picked to be the "Japanese Ace" on B.S.S., which was based on an actual AVG pilot who had crashed 5 P-40s.  He actually had 5 American flags painted on his P-40.  The way Robert Conrad put together VMF-214 in the series was based loosely on actual events, though a couple.  Upon arriving at Esprito Santo, Boyington did push paperwork on court-martials and he did "handle" all of these, for I believe, a 6 month period of time, with out a single case going to court.  The actual squadron was put together, with permission by the C.O. prior to Col. Lard, by using replacement pilots waiting on squadrons and/or planes, who may or may not have been fighter pilots, borrowed planes, and a borrowed unit number.  If anything, I'd think that some of Boyington's exploits were every bit as colorful as any Conrad portrayed....  But I digress...    

Even Boyington admitted that he did whatever the show's execs wanted to keep 'em happy (he was technical advisor for the show) regardless of accuracy (or, more correctly, inaccuracy), but really POd quite a few of his former squadron mates in doing so. It was mainly for the money.

A lot of people don't know this about him, but he worked for Boeing as an aeronautical engineer before WWII started, and helped design some of the landing gear on the B-17. 

Unfortunately, finances was one his many weaknesses, and it doesn't surprise me that he went along with the show's wishes.  I had actually heard that he worked for Boeing back in the 80's, while I was a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol.  I've wondered from time to time how much his life and career might have differed over the course of his life had he not been such an alcoholic.  But then again, none of us may have ever heard of Greg Boyington or VMF-214...

I did go back last night and do a little more work on the engine and the cockpit... basically, just adding a wash to each of them, and I think they actually look a bit better...  More soon, Raymond    

Looking forward to seeing more of your work, Ray.

Read the book "Blacksheep One" it and one other I cant recall its title, will clear up any misconceptions you might have about the man.

The only thing really accurate about the TV series and movie were names, more or less

But I wont get any further into than that......lol

good start on the U bird too by the way, I'll be keepin up with this build

Actually, "Black Sheep One" is sitting on my desk and will be one of the next things I read.  And perhaps I worded things unclearly...  I'm not saying that "The Flying Misfits" or the T.V. series was accurate, they were not, but, that some of the scenario's did have some element of truth to them.  Like I said, he really seemed to be the type of guy you either loved or hated, with very little in between.  I've talked to a few people who met him late in life, and they said he appeared to have some regrets...  Then again, I had a friend that met him at a Marine Corps banquet in the late 70's or early 80's, and he didn't think very much of him...  To help understand my... fascination (would be the best way to describe it) with the man.  I was a member of the Civil Air Patrol in the mid to late 80's.  My squadron was 42214, the Black Sheep, now TX 214 I believe.  So we were kind of steeped in Black Sheep lore.  Mine was the only squadron the he actually endorsed... of course, that and a nickel will get you a piece of two cent bubble gum ;-)

Thanks for the kind words on my build.  I'm gong to try and hit it again tomorrow...  I'm going to add a few things to the power plant and perhaps the seat as well before I move on.    

Bvallot and I have been talking about the insignia on this particular plane.  Many pictures of it show solid blue with a white star and bar, but a few show it to be bordered in red.  While there's a lot of pictures out there of 883, I've not seen any that are in color.  It's just hard to tell and about all you can do is look at slight variations in shades of grey... Uhm, no pun intended ;-)

I've found a few pics that do seem to indicate that the insignia was, in fact, the tri-color variant of the insignia.  Here's a picture of 17884 in the squadron scrap heap.  Looking at the edge it does appear that there is a lighter border, indicating that there are three different colors in play:

And here's one of Frank Magee standing on the starboard wing of 883 after Boyington landed on Dec. 27th.  Again, looking at the insignia as a whole it does appear that there may be three colors used.  If you look where the right arm of the star meets the bar it's a bit more apparent.  ((Britt, this highlights the area where you thought that the discoloration was the masking of an old insignia.))  

What do you think???

I'm coming along with the build and hope to have some more pics up this weekend.  I actually went back and did a few alterations to the engine and the seat, so I'll show them as well.  Thanks guys, Raymond

In the scrap photo the border does look a different shade

Raymond G

Bvallot and I have been talking about the insignia on this particular plane.  Many pictures of it show solid blue with a white star and bar, but a few show it to be bordered in red.  While there's a lot of pictures out there of 883, I've not seen any that are in color.  It's just hard to tell and about all you can do is look at slight variations in shades of grey... Uhm, no pun intended ;-)

I've found a few pics that do seem to indicate that the insignia was, in fact, the tri-color variant of the insignia.  Here's a picture of 17884 in the squadron scrap heap.  Looking at the edge it does appear that there is a lighter border, indicating that there are three different colors in play:

And here's one of Frank Magee standing on the starboard wing of 883 after Boyington landed on Dec. 27th.  Again, looking at the insignia as a whole it does appear that there may be three colors used.  If you look where the right arm of the star meets the bar it's a bit more apparent.  ((Britt, this highlights the area where you thought that the discoloration was the masking of an old insignia.))  

What do you think???

I'm coming along with the build and hope to have some more pics up this weekend.  I actually went back and did a few alterations to the engine and the seat, so I'll show them as well.  Thanks guys, Raymond

Hundo

In the scrap photo the border does look a different shade

Think about it this way.  The Insignia Blue cocade was painted probably late '42 to early '43 at the factory.  It has been out in a hot,tropical sun for months so it has been bleached out.  The new Insignia blue surround was probably painted in September-October '43 over the red surround so it would appear much darker as it almost brand new.

Richs26.... Yeah, I get what you're saying, but we're only talking about a period of approximately three to four months tops after the roundel changed to blue and white.  And I'd be content with that if the shading was more consistent and boarder thickness, which IS lighter in shade, less so.  Don't get me wrong, it may very well be all blue, but then again...  I may see if I can try and find a way to scan the pic with a red, green, and blue filter.  I have a connection at Texas A&M-Commerce that has access to a program that can combine multiple pictures of the same object.  If it's in black and white it makes it possible to render it in color.  It might not be exact, but it would probably be enough to tell what exactly is going on.  I don't know if I can make it work, so we'll see...    

Its my understanding from when I built my grandfather's B-17F, like Rich said, the red border was only used for a few months in 1943 (the B-17 was operational from July of 43 until it was shot down in October).  The red border was then painted over with blue which made it appear darker than the rest of the insignia.  This may explain why your seeing three colors.  I dont see anything in these particular pics that suggests a red border.

I cant wait to see your progress Ray..

Joe  

Thanks Joe!  I've got a little time yet, before I'm to that point.  I've put in a request to my contact, so hopefully that'll pan out.  I really don't care one way or the other, I just want to make sure I get it as close as possible.  It may be like Bvallot told me in our discussions: It may be that the only way to know for sure is to talk to someone who actually saw the plane at the time the photos were taken.  Of course, that was 70 years, two months, and two days ago, so I suppose that wouldn't be a for sure deal either, unless he had a camera with color film in it at the time :-)  It's just kind of got to the point that it's just bugging me, simply because I want to know... ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ;-)

Sorry, I'm just catching up to this conversation here.  With the kind of sun the Pacific would've seen in the summer months (or AT ALL lol), it wouldn't surprise me at all how quickly paint fades...especially without some kind of industrial clearcoat.  Ray's right about what I had previously thought was a mis-register of the mask while painting the insignia.  I was seeing two different values of grey and apparently after staring at it for hours on end...I had convinced myself that blue was the only color and the difference in value was a mistake in painting.  Here's a photo I found just yesterday and it's the only one so far in color.

Vought-F4U-1A-Corsair-VMF-214-Black-Sheep-prepares-for-take-off-Vella-Lavella-1943-01-1 by brittvallot, on Flickr

The blue is clearly lighter in color towards the top which may have just received more light and energy at the angle it appears on the fuselage and as a result fades more quickly.  No doubt many of you here have painted your home more than once.  And of course the paint you use in your home to paint your walls is different from what went on these planes...but you normally have to prime over a dark color to put something else on top without it showing.  So would it reason to believe that a red underneath this blue could be altering this color at all?  Would the red allow the blue to look that light where it's faded?

Any guesses out there?  Anybody think these landed on LaVella as red?

Also, Ray...check out the 8th photo on the site I sent you. That ought to make you scoff again.  I just don't know what to do now... =P  lol.  Of course it's a sim skin...but still.

bvallot

Sorry, I'm just catching up to this conversation here.  With the kind of sun the Pacific would've seen in the summer months (or AT ALL lol), it wouldn't surprise me at all how quickly paint fades...especially without some kind of industrial clearcoat.  Ray's right about what I had previously thought was a mis-register of the mask while painting the insignia.  I was seeing two different values of grey and apparently after staring at it for hours on end...I had convinced myself that blue was the only color and the difference in value was a mistake in painting.  Here's a photo I found just yesterday and it's the only one so far in color.

Vought-F4U-1A-Corsair-VMF-214-Black-Sheep-prepares-for-take-off-Vella-Lavella-1943-01-1 by brittvallot, on Flickr

The blue is clearly lighter in color towards the top which may have just received more light and energy at the angle it appears on the fuselage and as a result fades more quickly.  No doubt many of you here have painted your home more than once.  And of course the paint you use in your home to paint your walls is different from what went on these planes...but you normally have to prime over a dark color to put something else on top without it showing.  So would it reason to believe that a red underneath this blue could be altering this color at all?  Would the red allow the blue to look that light where it's faded?

Any guesses out there?  Anybody think these landed on LaVella as red?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F4U-1_Lt_Rinaberger_VMA-214_at_Espiritu_Santo_1943.jpg

By December-January, they would have been overpainted with blue.

Here is another of the same aircraft in color:

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/airfields/vanuatu/turtle_bay/wartime/vmf214-turtlebay.html#axzz2ulMPHoZi

and to show that markings were not always done to the T.O.specs, take a look at the F-4U with the starboard star:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vella_Lavella_airfield_Dec_1943.jpg

Well, the good news is that the picture with Magee will go to the Astro lab at Texas A&M-Commerce.  I'll send it in the morning.  She's got several programs that they use to convert black and white pictures (all their, if not all pictures taken through a professional grade telescope, are done in black and white) to color.  If anybody can give us an idea she can...  It looks to me, after looking at the pic bvallot took, that the red was painted over with a lighter blue than the roundel itself.  However, their is a pic of the paint scheme on 883 on the website he provided showing that the blue on one side had possibly worn off, or was poorly painted, two others were not in much better shape, and the forth was just the roundel itself, with no bars...  I think I may follow this scheme depending on what my contact finds out...  Gonna get real close to my air brush on this one.  I'm thinking about creating templates and doing these by hand...

Looks great to me,,great detail painting

I've been able to get a little work done on 883 the last few days...  I did end up re-doing the engine by adding the ignition wires using thinned sprue...  They don't look as good as lawdog's did, but I think it adds something to it.  I also added a little more greying and some Tamiya smoke to give it a more weathered look...

I've also got the cockpit, body, and the initial wing setup installed.  Also, I've removed to rudder...

I was able to get the rudder ready for reinstall as well.  One of the pictures shows the tail wheel in a left hand turn, so I thought it'd be cool to add this to the rudder as well.  Here's how I did it:

First I cut off an old label tab from a sprue tree and shaped it:

Then I heated a brass rod and inserted it into the scratch piece:

Then I glued the piece into place.  I also added another spacer towards the top of the tail section.  I did go back and add a litter filler then took a micro-file to the piece in order to get a perfect fit.  Unfortunately, I didn't get a pick of this last detail....

I added some filler to a few gaps in the tail section and rudder and sanded them down.  I've also rounded the front of the rudder a bit, in order to give it a more natural look...  Again, I neglected to take a picture of this last part.

Then I finished adding the wings.  It was a bit of a pain in the rear and the seams don't quiet match, so I'll have to go back and add a little filler and a do a little sanding to get everything just right....

That's it for now.  Still waiting to see if my friend at the university will be able to convert the pictures for me.  If not, I've got something to go by that ought to work rather well.  More to come soon, Raymond

Okay, I got the photobucket links fixed.  I'm not sure what's going on with them, but it seems to be something every time I turn around.  Oh well, it's free so I can't complain to much...

Looking good Ray.  I had trouble with the wings too.  Had to finagle them a bit.  I added sheet styrene to the inside edges to make a lip to give the pieces something to glue to. Its gave it strength too.  

Joe

How's she coming along, Mr. G?