I Should Know This, But I Don't, So I'll Ask

cvsaylr

Member since
September 2013

I Should Know This, But I Don't, So I'll Ask

Posted by cvsaylr on Monday, December 28, 2015 9:40 AM

Can anyone tell me if the SBD-3 Dauntless had folding wings? I've never seen a picture or film that shows one with wings folded, and did not notice wingfold actuators on a schematic of the hydraulic system. Because of that I think that it did not but I might be wrong.

Thanks, Dave

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jmcquate

Member since
March 2003

Posted by jmcquate on Monday, December 28, 2015 9:49 AM

Nope. F2A, SBD, A-4, AV-8, only Navy/Marine without folding wings.

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GMorrison

Member since
September 2012

Posted by GMorrison on Monday, December 28, 2015 10:34 AM

I'd toss the Tomcat in there. It's wing movement was a function of flight characteristics, not storage area.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

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BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Member since
January 2013

Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Monday, December 28, 2015 10:43 AM

But F-14s are parked with wings swept in for ease of parking on aircraft carrier decks.

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GMorrison

Member since
September 2012

Posted by GMorrison on Monday, December 28, 2015 10:46 AM

Right, they do "oversweep". I'm with you.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

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5-high

Member since
June 2010

Posted by 5-high on Monday, December 28, 2015 11:12 AM

Yes ..SBD-3 wings did fold for storage on carriers ..I have the trump version and I folded the wings to save room on my shelve...pete

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cvsaylr

Member since
September 2013

Posted by cvsaylr on Monday, December 28, 2015 12:26 PM

[quote user="GMorrison"]

Right, they do "oversweep". I'm with you.

Yep, as a former "Tomcat Tweaker" I know they had oversweep. The oversweep function was specifically for carrier storage. The flight function of the wings was a sweep from 20 degrees to 60 degrees. Oversweep was a single movement from 60 degrees to 62 degrees. Flaps and slats could be deployed from 20 degrees to 50 degrees. After that the flaps were disabled by the flight computer as were the wing spoilers (which had the function of ailerons for turning). Turns with wings between 50 degrees and 60 degrees were accomlished by rudder and a split horizontal stabilizer function. Additionally, the inboard flaps only deployed at 20 degrees and were hydraulicly actuated to "bleed back" if a flap malfunction occurred (a 3 degree difference side to side in flap deployment would cause the flaps to "lock out" which held them in whatever position they happened to be when they locked out). The Tomcat was also notorious for a problem with the wingsweep actuators which caused the wings to sweep back out of sync which caused a few to crash but several were actually brought home in spite of this. (All this info is for those of you who want to build accurate Tomcats).

Additionally, the early birds had what was called a "bomb" mode and when the wings reached 50 degrees two triangular panels on the front of the plane inboard of the wing pivot would deploy for further stabilization but later models (BuNo 161... and later, I believe) had this feature removed. The old 1/48 Monogram model had these panels and because of the gearing Monogram used to sweep the wings these things came out every time you wanted to sweep the wings back.

Dave

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cvsaylr

Member since
September 2013

Posted by cvsaylr on Monday, December 28, 2015 12:44 PM

[quote user="5-high"]

Yes ..SBD-3 wings did fold for storage on carriers ..I have the trump version and I folded the wings to save room on my shelve...pete

Hm... don't know for certain. could it be that the -3 did not and later models (eg -5) did? Kind of like the F-4F-3 did not but the F-4F-4 did?

Dave

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jmcquate

Member since
March 2003

Posted by jmcquate on Monday, December 28, 2015 5:44 PM

Everything I've read about the SBD-3 states no wing fold due to strucural integrity in a dive with early wing fold technology..........I think Trumpeter got it wrong.

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GMorrison

Member since
September 2012

Posted by GMorrison on Monday, December 28, 2015 6:19 PM

I'm confused. Obviously no pro on Naval Aviation, but I've never seen an SBD of any mark with folding wings.

The earlier TBD did, however.

EDIT: Right, I looked at the Trumpeter SBD and it has rigid wings. Their TBD has folding wings.

So what dive bombers had folding wings? The SB2C.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

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jmcquate

Member since
March 2003

Posted by jmcquate on Monday, December 28, 2015 6:52 PM

GMorrison
So what dive bombers had folding wings? The SB2C.

SB2C, Vals (and all of the other Japanese), and believe it or not, a version of a Ju-87, for the DKM Graf Zepplin.

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stikpusher

Member since
July 2004
From: Sonora Desert

Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:14 AM

5-high

Yes ..SBD-3 wings did fold for storage on carriers ..I have the trump version and I folded the wings to save room on my shelve...pete

No versions of the SBD had folding wings. You must be confusing with another kit.

Early F4Fs up to the -3 also had non folding wings.

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

- Plankton

LSM

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plasticjunkie

Member since
November 2008
From: Central Florida

Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:55 AM

That is what's great about this site, questions that pop up that some of us never thought about or just have overlooked. I was under the impression that all US Navy planes had some sort of folding feature for storage reasons but it's not the case.

Taken from Wiki, not the best place for info but it sums it up very simple:

"Since the monoplane supplanted the biplane in the late 1930s, virtually all fixed-wing aircraft designed for shipboard duty have been equipped with folding wings. Notable exceptions include the SBD Dauntless, F2A Buffalo, and A4D/A-4 Skyhawk (all USN types) and the Sea Harrier (British). All four are relatively small designs."

And another non folder is the Tomcat as previously mentioned by GM.