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F-4E/F-4F Puzzle

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  • Member since
    September, 2017
  • From: San Antonio, TX
F-4E/F-4F Puzzle
Posted by SkyCopJC on Friday, September 08, 2017 10:16 PM

Ok ladies and gents...I'm about to crack into my first "real" build.  I'm done playing around and practicing on cheap kits, time to step into the big leagues!  Luckily I have plenty of research time since I just moved and have a gov't funded week long vacation to the 5-sided fun house before I can re-establish my workbench and crack the box.

What I have:  Italeri F-4E Phantom II 1:48

What I want to re-create:  20FS F-4F (terminated Dec 2004, Holloway AFB, NM)

The story behind the build:  This was the first of a few jets I guarded when I first got my start, but that was 14 years ago and the most prominent memory I have is cussing at the thing waking me up at zero-dark thirty with full burn engine runs across the street.

I've read up and discovered I'll need to make sure I have slatted wings and non-slotted stabilitizers.  Anyone have reference on what that means?  Google would be productive, but all the images in the world won't matter if I dont know what I'm looking at...they all look the same (insert noob joke here).  I have no problem going aftermarket to convert.  Im likely going aftermarket anyways to get as much detail out of this thing as I can.

I have the color scheme figured out (ok...i have plenty of pictures, I have to figure out the precise color codes) and it looks like I'm going to need to get creative with the decals.  Luckily the bird is mostly a unique mix of USAF markings with a few Luftwaffe call-outs thrown in So I might be able to get away with painting some of it. 

Tips, tricks, advice, warnings, and all prayers welcomed and encouraged...and go!

-Jay

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, September 08, 2017 10:31 PM

Best bet is to use a different base kit. The Italeri kit is a rebox of the ESCI F-4E, which is an early version with the early hard wing. I don't recall if the stabs in that kit are slotted or not. And I'm at work so I can't look at the ones in my stash. If the stabs are not slotted, then all you need is the slatted outer wing panels and the actuator housings for under the lower inner wings. There are three per side. And of course you would have to scribe the slats in the inner wings.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, September 08, 2017 10:44 PM

Here is the slatted wing

and the older unslatted with leading edge flaps

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2017
  • From: San Antonio, TX
Posted by SkyCopJC on Friday, September 08, 2017 11:17 PM

Learning has occurred, thanks! I'll keep digging through reference material while i'm traveling and getting my bench reset now that I know what I'm looking at.  May have to put this one on hold if I cant dig up enough aftermarket or a better base to get after what I want.  Leave it to me to start off complicated Confused.  

-Jay

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, September 08, 2017 11:45 PM

I'd be interested in the paint scheme. The comment you made is kind of mysterious as far as the Luftwaffe and Holloway AFB...

But it sounds ambitious.

 

Bill

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, September 08, 2017 11:50 PM

Over the years they wore different schemes, both USAF and Bundesluftwaffe. But almost always with US markings.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Saturday, September 09, 2017 3:23 AM

Standard Luftwaffe F-4F, non-slotted stabs, slatted wings.

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_0373/1559314-large.jpg

Holloman birds.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/McDonnell_Douglas_F-4F-54-MC_Phantom_72-1150.jpg

Difficult to tell if the stabs are slotted, but I believe not.

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Saturday, September 09, 2017 3:40 AM

PS: If I recall correctly, the F-4F's were built without the air-to-air refueling system, so if you're starting out with an F-4E, the outline of the receptacle on the aircraft's spine needs to be filled.

  • Member since
    June, 2004
  • From: 29° 58' N 95° 21' W
Posted by seasick on Saturday, September 09, 2017 7:08 AM

No AIM-7.

Chasing the ultimate build.

  • Member since
    March, 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Saturday, September 09, 2017 7:56 AM

I'm actually planning on building an ICE Phantom using the Hasegawa kit in 1 48. I believe have have some extra Hollowman Markings I would send you. We are in the middle of a move so I'll have to search for them. You are right on the non slotted stabs. Some jets carried the F-15 style center tank vs. the navy style. I am using resin seats from Aires that claim to have the British style harness That the Luftwaffe used also. I'm sure there are some other minor differences.  

 

 

  • Member since
    September, 2017
  • From: San Antonio, TX
Posted by SkyCopJC on Saturday, September 09, 2017 9:45 AM

Phil,

Intetestingly the birds were German owned and sent to HAFB to train Luftwaffe pilots with.  The USAF markings would lead one to believe otherwise, but the stabs would be  slotted since that's all Germany ever owned.  Awesome reference pics by the way!

All,

Thanks for the tips, keep'em coming!

-Jay

  • Member since
    June, 2004
  • From: 29° 58' N 95° 21' W
Posted by seasick on Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:16 PM

Did the randome change for the Luftwaffe ICE Phantoms? 

IIRC the AN/AWG-14 had their AN/APQ-120 radar sets replaced with the newer AN/APG-65 radars. 

Chasing the ultimate build.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:34 PM

only in coloring. The shape remains the same. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2017
  • From: San Antonio, TX
Posted by SkyCopJC on Friday, September 15, 2017 5:55 PM

All things considered and a whole lot of extra research later, turns out my memory isn't as bad as I thought.  I remember distinctly guarding a ramp full of SE Asia Camo F-4s but thought maybe I remembered wrong since I didn't spend a ton of time on that particular ramp.  Turns out I was right, Holloman sported a handful original F-4Es until 2004 for training purposes.  I'll use my F-4E kit to go that route.  In the meantime, I'll continue keeping my eyes pealed for a good F-4F kit to cover the other parts of my history of rivet counting in the ramp.  So many hours of my 20's...Huh?

-Jay

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posted by Devil Dawg on Saturday, September 16, 2017 8:41 PM

stikpusher

The shape remains the same. 

 

 
Didn't Led Zeppelin have an album with that name??  Huh? Heh heh heh.....

Devil Dawg

On The Bench: Travel 1/48th Hasegawa A-7 Corsair II;  Travel 1/48th Hasegawa F/A-18F Super Hornet;  Travel 1/48th Eduard/Hasegawa Ultimate Sabre with "MiG Mad Marine" markings;

Build one at a time? Hah! That'll be the day!!

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, September 16, 2017 11:44 PM

Devil Dawg

 

 
stikpusher

The shape remains the same. 

 

 

 
Didn't Led Zeppelin have an album with that name??  Huh? Heh heh heh.....
 

and a movie too!!! Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
Posted by rangerj on Sunday, September 17, 2017 2:23 PM

IIRC one of the resin aftermarket companies makes a set of non-slotted stabs for the F-4 in 1/48th scale. Lead Zepplin? Good grief! I like real music like Glenn Miller, The Dorsy brothers, or Artier Shaw. 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, September 17, 2017 5:46 PM

rangerj

 Lead Zepplin? Good grief! I like real music like Glenn Miller, The Dorsy brothers, or Artier Shaw. 

 

 

yeah I'll listen to those guys too... anc Tchaikovsky, Bach, Wagner, Rossini, The Clash, Blink 182, Mumford and Sons, Toby Keith,  and many things in between...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June, 2004
  • From: 29° 58' N 95° 21' W
Posted by seasick on Monday, September 18, 2017 11:11 AM

Speaking of Led Zepplin, I've always wanted to get a Hindenburg kit build it and paint it lead colored and then put led Zepplin logos in place of the flags.

Chasing the ultimate build.

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