B-17C/D W.I.P. ...

Love the progress shots, Frank. It's interesting to look at these earlier B-17's and compare them to the F and G variants. There's some similarities, but a lot of differences. I never realized how many windows there were above the nose! 

I was building an LB-30/Lib MkII long nose following this one modeler's method here on Flickr (pgs 16-17).  AL 613 is one of the 150 LB-30 MkII Libs requistioned by the USAAF. Many were converted to C-87's after their combat use was done as B-24's came on strength.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/arienautics/page16

I cut out the wing and was going to use PBY-5A cowlings from Quickboost with 4 metal Aeroclub (I think) 11' 3" Curtiss-Electric toothpick props.

Then I discovered this conversion kit from Hannant's which seems they are out of at this time:

https://www.aviationmegastore.com/liberator-mkiii-academy-9272-magna-models-m9272-aircraft-modelling-conversion/product/?action=prodinfo&art=76258

The CAF's Diamond Lil is a B-24A which was the same as a Liberator I.  It was part of the original British order, serialed as AM-927.  It was damaged before delivery so it was repaired and bailed back to Consolidated.  It was then converted into a C-87 prototype shuttling parts between Consolidated plants.  For Diamond Lil, 3 scale feet would have to be removed from the nose length.

Richs26, do you have any build pictures of your B-24/LB-30 build? I'd like to see how you are modifying the B-24D fuselage and engines to make it an LB-30. The CAF's "B-24" is actually an LB-30. I think it was part of the first batch of B-24's built and shipped to England under Lend/Lease. Of course, the CAF ship has windows down the sides and a single .30 cal. in the tail, the airplane's only armament, I think, and no bomb bay doors.

Had to make a trip up to Harbor Freight for a couple of clamps. I had to re-glue the seam forward of the bomb bay as the seam had come unglued. Notice that the gun tub is now attached. The guns will go in after paint.

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Smeared on a bunch of Perfect Plastic Putty to blend the canopy into the fuselage. Whoever invented that stuff needs to get some sort of commedation. It's just great!

fotofrank

Richs26, I understand that earlier models of the B-17 were upgraded to C/D standard but the photo does give me a reference as to how I'll be opening the waist windows on my kit. The photo of the #2 aircraft seems to show where the old windows refitted with the newer windows. Brrr! And it was winter at Wright Field.

 

That photo of B-17B #2 is 38-216 which belonged to the Cold Weather Test Detachment at Ladd Field, Fairbanks, Alaska.  The photo was taken during the winter of 1940/41 during a visit to Merrill Field, Anchorage, Alaska.  It crashed at Lovelock, Nevada enroute to Wright-Pat in February, 1941.  B-17B #1 also belonged to the CWTD which was the only combat used B model which flew during the Kiska/Attu Blitz of the Japanes landings.    Click on this photo on this article on #1, 38-215, Old Seventy, to see a clearer picture of the new C/D waist windows.

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/3348747-old-seventy-requiem-for-a-b-17 

And the C/D windows have 2 latches, not just one, but as it happens on the web, I can't find the Boeing photo of the C waist now. 

Another still from the movie. Inside the red circle is a handle that holds the window in place. Turn the handle and the window slides out. The semi-circular front piece remains in place. That portion of the window has a wind deflector that can be opened so it's easier to move the gun in the slipstream.

 

Richs26, I understand that earlier models of the B-17 were upgraded to C/D standard but the photo does give me a reference as to how I'll be opening the waist windows on my kit. The photo of the #2 aircraft seems to show where the old windows refitted with the newer windows. Brrr! And it was winter at Wright Field.

Well, I had to pry the canopy off today. It didn't sit very nicely and didn't glue on very well. Doing some sanding and shaping of the glue edges to get it to sit better and have more surface for glue to work. I know this model will look nice after it is finally complete but it is certainly problematic. The lesson I am learning is that of patience.

Frank, that is a movie set photo.  The B models were rebuilt mostly with the same features as the C/D's.  The waist positions are the same between re-done B's and C/D's.

http://www.airplanesofthepast.com/images/airforce-archives/b17b-flying-fortress-esler-field-la-air-force-archives.jpg

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Opland/4442.jpg

This is how I now plan to deal with the waist window situation. I found this image of John Garfield in the waist window of what appears to be a B-17A or B. The windows are smaller and more organically shaped than on the later C and D B-17 models, but the intent is the same. Of course, John Garfield won't be there but the machine gun will be in the window in the stowed position.

Thanks, Rocker. I've spent the afternoon pulling out the tabs I so carefully glued in earlier and I've been using a #10 X-acto blade to smooth the areas a little since now the inside of the waist area will be visible. I also glued on the underside gun tub. I did glue the waist windows into the other fuselage so I won't have that issue in the future. Thanks for looking in.

I'm sure it's going to look awesome no matter what the windows look like. Can't wait to see more photos. Also, nice Saturday Night Live reference! That was from the era of that show that my parents always said "had the best cast", and I'm inclined to agree. 

Well, I discovered something about this Academy kit today. I have a second kit and I have been trouble-shooting the waist window fitment issues I'm having on this NMF B-17. It's become apparent to me that the waist windows should have been glued in BEFORE the fuselage was closed up. So, I've decided to finish this kit with the waist windows out/deleted. As seen in the movie "Air Force", the windows are taken out so the guns can be used in combat. I have a picture I found of John Garfield firing a .50 cal. in the waist window of a B-17, so I have a pretty good idea as to how to make the change work. As the great Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say: "Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something — if it ain't one thing, it's another." Eventually this kit will be finished and I'll be able to move on to something else.

Yeah, the hole is painted over so it won't be seen. I drilled a new hole in the fuselage 1/4" to the right for the placement of the commander's blister. That puts the blister directly over the right rear seat.

Top o' the page. Have a soda on me!

Thanks, Rocker. this is the first B-17 I have build in many many years. I've always been fond of the early Forts with their shark-fin tail. I have two more B-17C kits im my stash along with a B-17E and a Pro-Modeler B-17G. Not sure when I'll get to them though. These Academy/Italeri kits are not for the faint of heart. Even so, I'd like to find the Academy B-17F "Memphis Belle" kit.

Start a build thread on your B-17G so we can follow your progress.

Now THAT'S ingenuity! Great job so far on your Fortress. I am starting a B-17G tonight and decided to take a stroll throught the aircraft forum to see if anyone else had a B-17 build going. Can't wait to see what you do with yours! 

Glad to see it worked!  The hole you had to fill on the top of the clear part, will that be painted over?  If that is supposed to remain clear, instead of filling with white filler, you may want to fill it with a glue that dries clear.

SUCCESS!! I taped a Q-tip to a wooden stick that reached from the waist windows to the turtle-back window. It worked like a charm. I feel so much better now. I dipped the Q-tip in MM flat black acrylic, reached through tthe waist window and swabbed the Turtle-back window. The procedure worked so well. Now the gray inside plastic is hidden from view. Now I need to glue in the styrene tabs to hold the waist windows and this build can really get a move on! The two little white dots over the flight deck are the holes I filled because I'm moving the commander's blister to the right so it will be over the right rear seat, just like the picture I'm using as my guide!

Toshi, thanks for the vote of confidence. Right now I'm not really feeling "it." This B-17 is a struggle every step of the way. And to think I want to do another one of these kits as the "Mary Ann" from the movie Air Force. Anyway, it never occurred to me that after the turtle-back glass and the waist windows are in you can look right down into the airplane and see the gray plastic inside. Well, the turtle-back glass is already glued in and I need to paint the inside black to hide the interior. I'll do the same with the waist windows.

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I rigged a Q-tip to a coffee stirrer. I should be able to reach through the waist windows and swab the turtle-back glass with black paint to hide the interior. Man-o-man, necessity is a mother...of invention. Wish me luck.

Looking to your build for inspiratio!  Great job!

Your friend Toshi

The turtle part is the bubble that goes over one of the seats?  Is the main canopy attached to the fuselage?  I have some ideas based on your answers.

I need to get the turtle-back clear part out. It's glued in with Testors liquid cement. It needs to be painted black on the inside. As I put the tabs in for the waist windows I'll paint the inside of the waist windows black.

I second your idea of styrene tabs on the inside to support the clear part.  Even if the tape did work, many times due to capilary action, the glue will follow the tape up and down the fuselage creating ridges on the fuselage, or worse possibly create issues on your clear parts.  Also the glue may interact poorly with the tape adhesive causing more issues.

Ambition exceeding knowledge! man, I know how that feels. Happens to me all the time.

Like now: I'm putting the clear parts on the B-17 because some of the parts will be easier to mask after they are attached, like the nose, etc. I put the canopy on and the clear part for the turtl-back. The turtle-back had tabs to catch the part so it wouldn't fall into the fuselage and it was successfully glued in place. The waist windows are different. No tabs. Just a flush fit. I thought I could use tape to hold them in place for glue but that won't work. The window still sinks into the fuselage. It doesn't remain flush. I think I'm going to try to fashion some tabs out of styrene that will support the windows so I can glue them in. Of all the reviews I read on this kit, this problem was never discussed. Sure wish I'd known about that before I closed up the fuselage.

fotofrank

No. Not quite sure what you're asking.

The airplane has lots of exterior lights?

 

From help & info from many others, there are 21 external lights on an F, just an idea to spruce up the otherwise lacklustre Revell 1/48th kit.

Sometimes my ambition exceeds my knowledge...   But that's how we learn, eh?

Doing some more masking of clear parts today and I'm moving the commander's blister over to the right so it will be directly over the right rear seat on the flight deck.

As a result of the above post, I re-masked the waist windows and turtle-back clear parts on the B-17 today. Route62 was a big help today, supplying templates for me to use to cut the masking tape to the correct size and shape to fit the windows. Route62 has been a big help since I've gotten back into the hobby. All the stuff I used to know he's helping me re-learn.