P2V-5 Lockheed Neptune Start-to-Finish

What an awesome result from a very challenging build. It was really almost closer to a scratch-build in a lot of areas. Great attention to detail. Thanks for the nice documentation!

The model along with the 5"38 project were delivered successfully to all parties. Larry was totally satisfied with his plane. I also learned that his crew got the "Best Crew Award" in 1961. This apparently is a big deal. He was the plane captain and besides handling weapons he also served as flight engineer. I will start working on the stand tomorrow. I pre-ordered the latest Elegoo Saturn 4 Ultra 3D printer at the end of the month. This machine, in addition to be having 60% more capacity, has some significantly advanced features. For example: Instead of pulling the forming part directly up off the FEP film at the vat bottom between layers, the vat tilts simultaneously reducing the vacuum forces and peeling the part off. This reduces sticking to the FEP and increase the speed the printer can work. It also has a camera which watches for during-print failures and alerts me, thereby letting me stop the print before wasting more reesin. I'm going to need the added capacity for the next New Jersey project: the #3 engine room.

The model along with the 5"38 project were delivered successfully to all parties. Larry was totally satisfied with his plane. I also learned that his crew got the "Best Crew Award" in 1961. This apparently is a big deal. He was the plane captain and besides handling weapons he also served as flight engineer. I will start working on the stand tomorrow. I pre-ordered the latest Elegoo Saturn 4 Ultra 3D printer at the end of the month. This machine, in addition to be having 60% more capacity, has some significantly advanced features. For example: Instead of pulling the forming part directly up off the FEP film at the vat bottom between layers, the vat tilts simultaneously reducing the vacuum forces and peeling the part off. This reduces sticking to the FEP and increase the speed the printer can work. It also has a camera which watches for during-print failures and alerts me, thereby letting me stop the print before wasting more reesin. I'm going to need the added capacity for the next New Jersey project: the #3 engine room.

Looks great!

O Blimey! This is the Navy. Captain.

Ration the man some RUM!

Bill

I think I'll have a bourbon or Old Fashioned when it's delivered safe and sound on Sunday. I added exhaust streaking and took the masking of the side windows. I also changed the support box by adding some soft felt to the places where it's hitting the model. Should arrive okay. I've done this before with good results. Larry is very happy with how it looks, and that, in the end, is all that matters.

Looks great from here. You deserve a couple of medals just for your perseverence in completing the build. Did you sit down, relax and have a few sips of your favorite brew upon completion? If not, do it now. You earned it. 

Stay safe.

Jim 

PS - Have a few for me too.

Interesting. I do have some plexiglass floating around the shop. That said, it didn't long to design one on SketchUp. It will take almost a day to print it all in my smallish machine so I'm bringing the finished model on this trip and then shipping him the stand when it's done.

I think I've saved the model. I woke up thinking about how to fasten those now-important gear doors since there was no gluing surface. I came up with a crazy scheme to use thin styrene could be bent to lie at the sides of the wheel wells. I used some 0.010" thin sheet and glue it solidly to the gear doors. When it was sent I trimmed them so they would fit into their respective openings. I glued them in with tube cement.

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This picture was taken with the door flopped over to show the mounting sheets. I ended up removing all those little supports I put in yesterday. The glue was not holding. I don't know how well this scheme has to work. There's no load on these parts so they just kind of have to hang there. The natural springiness of the thin sheets holds them in place even without the glue.

I masked off the areas I didn't want sprayed and airbrushed more Glossy Engine Gray on the newly replaced parts.

When I pulled the tape, it also pulled of the squadron insignia on the str'bd side. No problem! I always make more decals. Ink jet ink is not that expensive. Well… actually it is, but not to do a couple of tiny decals. 

I sprayed AllClad Aqua Clear on the topsides and tonight I will do the sam e on the bottom. I also designed the stand. Didn't take long on SketchUp. 

To mount the plane to the stand I drilled a 1/4" hole in the fuse at what I estimated to be the center of gravity. It was touching since I was drilling right on the seam line and it was complaining and ungluing. I did it very slowly and when it was close used a burr on the Dremel until a 1/4" brass rod slipped in. I put the rod in until it bottomed out and marked its length. I cut the brass off with a mini-abrasive cutoff saw, and then chucked it in the Taig lathe to drill a 5/32 hole to accept the mounting pin. I glued the pin in (a piece of 5/32 drill rod) with CA and then glued the entire assembly into the fuselage with epoxy designed for plastics.

The text at the base of the stand reads "Lockheed P2V-5 Neptune" "Squadron No VP-8".

I got the clear coat done. There are some external antennas and pitot tubes that shoudl go on now, but due to the fragility and having to transport the model, added to the bad luck I've been having breaking things on this model, I'm leaving them off. Therefore, the plane is DONE.

This is the carrying rig I'm going to use to transport. The clear coat (hopefully) will help mitigate the paint peeling I'm noting with the Mission Models paint. It's very perishable.

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Here's some finished model shots. I'm going to ship him the stand after it created.

​The mounting pin is very robust.

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Tomorrow, when the Aqua Clear is fully set, I'm going to add some weathering powder for the prominent exhaust streaking these planes were noted for. According to counsin Larry, they would adjust those R-3350 so the exhaust was just nice light tan meaning they were getting very good fuel burns and efficiency. Ergo, the streaking was tan not soot colored My wife asked if adding the exhaust streaks was going to damage anything. I sure hope not, as long as I don't drop it.

This was not my best model. Far from it. But it also was a very non-technical kit. I'd rather design my own models if I'm going to have to fuss with fits and finishes. By my wife's cousin is going to be pleased. It looks like his plane and that's all that matters.

What I do for inflight stands is a piece of clear acrylic rod, maybe six inches or so.  That is inserted in bottom of the model, perpendicular to flight axix, other end in plate of mdf.  I find a location photo appropriate to aircraft mission (google earth is usual source).  I size the photo for appropriate altitude and print it out on photo paper and glue (contact cement).  Place rod in place.  I finish the edges of base with various means- strips of oak, paint, vinyl film, etc.

It was a great job... that is until today. Read on.

Today wasn't such a good day! I spent more time repairing than building. I had to do my metal pin magic to fasten a prop blade that lost the very weak and tiny pin that was supposed to hold it. I had to scratch-build one of the two nose gear doors after one had fallen off the sprue and may have been swept up and thrown out when I cleaned the floor. I was wrestling with the landing gear and not happy how they were going on. I had no idea how you were suppose to glue on the open gear doors. I re-glued the glass dome over the spotlight three times. 

And then things really got bad. I had the model basically complete. I measured the distance from a surface to the underside of the tail to make a clear support stick since the model was very tail heavy. It would have taken more than an ounce of weight to bring the nose down, and since I had forgotten to add weight before closing it all up, options were limited. I was about to turn down one end of the plastic stick and somehow (I really don't know how), I bumped the model and it hit the FLOOR. I blew off the canopy, the spotlight lens (again!), some of the gear doors, and totally wrecked two out of three landing gears. NOT SALVAGABLE! And you know I can recover from almost anything. Not this time. There was a bright spot. I got all the decals on, AND FINALLY got the color background right. I had to reprint the #5 that sits below the canopy and the Rescue arrows were too big.

To replace the broken prop pin, I had to take a slightly different approach. The cross-section of the prop was too narrow to successfully drill it to insert a pin. Instead, I ground a groove in the back face and CA'd the prop to a much larger pin that fit into the large hole in the spinner. It worked.

After touching up the mess, I had two good props. I find it interesting the prop tips are clipped a la those on a turbo-prop.

I also painted the wheels, but alas, they will not be used.

I had to scratch-build one nose gear door. As I note above, I think I swept it up and tossed it. I used .020" and .015. Later I found that the kit's outer door thickness is .030".

I didn't take any pictures will the gear and doors in place. I had a terrible time mounting the doors. There really was no viable gluing surface and it was annoying. Edge gluing thin stock is always dubious and this was no exception. I was warned that it would sit on its tail and it sure did.

This was what the model looked like after gravity had its way with it. I dropped models before, but this was the first time that unrecoverable damage ocurred.

I examined the gear to see if I could work any magic, but could not. Closing the gear doors was not so easy either. There is no purchase to keep them from just falling into the wheel well. First I had to glue the two halves together and this involved sraping all the set Gel CA, and removing any paint where the joint would be. Then I needed to reinforce the joint since gluing 0.030" edges together is a recipe for failure. The lip was .060" across so I used a piece of .060" X .060" styrene to beef it up.  For some miraculous reason, the props didn't get damaged. If they got whacked, I would have to either scrap the whole deal or make clear plastic disks with motion lines to simulate rotating props.

I tried fitting the assembled doors into their respective openings. They sort-of fit, but there's nothing upon which to attach them.

To that end, I added some structure into the wheel wells to keep the doors from simply falling inside. These little struts will serve that purpose, but they may need more structure to provide enough gluing surface. Right now there's practically none. MiniCraft didn't do any engineering about how these doors were going to be held, whether open or closed.

I trimmed the supports so they would let the doors sit flush.

Without landing gear the model's going to need some kind of stand or else be hung from the ceiling. I think Larry's going to want to be able to see it. I'm going to design and 3D print an acceptable stand worthy of the model. That work is going to take me past tomorrow and therefore, I will not finish the model on time to get it him for this trip. I was pressing too hard and that's probably why I was having the problems anyway. I wasn't happy with the landing gear. They were weak and flimsy and would have broken most likely. I'm not just espousing sour grapes. I've done so much touch up painting, the plane is starting to look very real.

That is a tough kit, but like you said it's the only one. You're doing a great job. I've built that kit many times. First when it was first released because my Dad was the Ordinance Chief for Crew 7 in Vp-933 out of Willow Grove Until they retired the Neptunes. His were dark Sea Blue, then White over Dark Sea Blue. Of course they had the International Orange trim as a Reserve Squadron except when activated (which was a lot). When Dad passed away recently I got on build back that had the orange trim he had hanging in his home office for about 50 years!!  Press on!!!  In build to watch 

Builder 2010

The spinner is two parts, and the back part fell off during all the fussing. I just put it aside until tomorrow before I wrecked it.

You've done a great job so far.

Bill

I'll probably end up making a clear tail stand so it sits on three wheels. I am making great progress, but there are occasional setbacks that are annoying me. I painted the white primer, then Tamiya Gloss white for the surfaces that are white. My wife's cousin sent a better picture of his plane in flight that I could use for the masking and decal placement.

I had overlooked Larry's #5 Plane Number. I drew that up today, printed it, and overcoated it with Rust-oleum clear gloss. This stuff really dries shiny and fast.

I got the white surfaces masked. Took quite awhile since it follows the wing roots and I used the White Vinyl tape for that.

I painted all the Glossy Gray. When it went on I almost had a heart attack. It was many shades lighter than the decal color. But after force drying it a bit with the heat gun, it darkened considerably and will work okay.

Like Vallejo acrylic, the Mission Models paint flashes off pretty quickly, but stays tacky for a long time. I like Tamiya better. When it flashes off it's dry. I left it in this position for while until I could handle it with nitrile gloves on.

I then pulled the tape. Most was okay, but I found the difficulty of masking white paint with white vinyl tape. I missed a spot! Ugh!. I will mask the tail tomorrow and shoot some gloss white to repair. The paint will dry quick enough.

I also found upon further inspection, there were some light gray spots, which I brush painted. I may have to do more of this touchup tomorrow.

I'm finding that the Mission paint does not adhere as well as I would like. Again, I don't seem to have that problem with Tamiya. I've been using Tamiya for 50 years.

The jets look decent. I'm holding off de-masking the clear parts until all the touch up work is done.

I finished the session building (or should I say, "attempting to build") the propellers. Upon first glance it was nice that the blades and hub assembly were separate parts. In retrospect, it is NOT! The pins on the props are too small and the blades fit sloppily and flop around. I'm trying to find the correct glue to put it together. The spinner is two parts, and the back part fell off during all the fussing. I just put it aside until tomorrow before I wrecked it. For 1/72 a fully molded prop would have been just fine.

It will definitely be tail heavy!  You are making quick progress.

This post will cover two days of work. Yesterday I spent building subassemblies, and sanding and filling the terrific seams that occur on an old "vintage" kit. I'm a bit spoiled. The kits I generally build these days are current generation of highly detailed and engineered kits, with a zillion parts and generally good assembly (not counting the horror of building the Kitty Hawk Seahawk). I use my Tamiya 1:32 Corsair as the benchmark for how perfectly seams fit and molding is done. This kit was the antithesis. Flash was everywhere, parts are crudely molded, engineering is dubious. 

That said, it will be a nice model only because it has huge sentimental value and it's the only kit available of such a plane. I shared the descrepenicies with Larry between the -5 and -7 versions especially in the canopy shape and placement of the search radar bulge. Larry doesn't mind. It's going to be the right color and have all his squadron's correct insignia.

This shows the challenge.

And this...

And now filled.

Now... the biggest problem with old models is the raised panel lines and rivets. You can't sand the seams without obliterating them. And you can't rescribe them since they're in relief and would have to be applied, and I'm not doing that. The result is smooth seams but no texture around them. 

I got the nacelles, both fore and aft, and readied them for install. These parts were assembled without alignment pins or notches making it fussier than it should have been to get them aligned in two axes.

And the rear nacelles which had to include part of the landing gear that was captivated in the assembly. This sequence wasn't very clear in the instructions and I almost glued the halves together before realizing that it had to trap the gear brace.

I masked all the very-finely raised nose glazing frame and then glued it to the plane with Testor's canopy cement.

That finished yesterday's work. I went down to the shop before breakfast to glue on the main canopy so it would be cured for later in the day to do more work on the plane.

Later, I was pressing to get some painting done. I painted the tails of the jets first airbrushed with AllClad "Lightly Burned Metal" and then over-coated away from the tail pipe with AllClad Stainless Steel. I painted the intake side of the jets with Nato Black and then masked them both. I glued the rear nacelle with wheel wells to the wing with Tamiya Cement. I then glued on the front nacelle with engines to the rear with Testor's tube cement to the attached rear. I also airbrushed the fore portion of the radar blister NATO black.

After the jets dried I masked all the pre-painted engine parts in prep for overall plane painting. I glued the jets on with Tamiya cement. I then glued on the wing tip tanks with Testor's tube cement to provide grip if the joint was fully flush. The plane is ready for paint tomorrow.

I will start by masking the black area of the radar done, and fill the wheel wells with dampened paper towels to prevent spray entering. Then I will rattle-can spray the topside white with Tamiya white primer followed by Gloss white. When dry I'll mask it and spray the body color of Glossy Engine Gray.

I hope it's not tail heavy, since I haven't pre-installed any nose weights.

Following.  The Neptune is one of my favorites.  Been wanting to get the Hasegawa for a while now.  

Moving right along... Painted what I could, masked the canopy, and made another set of decals that could work, although the picture seems to show it's still biased towards the red end. That said, under different lighting it looks much better. I'm not going to sweat it any longer. My wife's cousin is not an IPMS judge and will love the model for the thought that went into its creation. The color match will be fine.

Normally, I would go nuts on detailing a cockpit, but I'm usually working in 1:32. In this case, and with the limited view in the canopy, I'm not going to do much. Interior is a dark gray, but not really dark.

I got the canopy masked. I started using Tamiya normal tape, but then switched to Tamiya curvy tape. It's vinyl and lets you bend it around compound curves without bucklng. I filled the remaining areas with MicroScale liguid mask. For some reason it wasn't wetting the transparent parts as well as I would like and I kept having to go back and fill in the blank spots. 

I also installed all the glazing that needed to be glued in from the inside. These too were masked with liquid mask.

I assembled the simply-detail 3350s which consisted of just two parts. The 3350s are cowled very tightly and you will see basically nothing inside. Even so, I painted the inside light ghost gray as called out by the FS number. I probably will pick out the pushrod tubes, but nothing else on the engines. I'd love to see someone do a model in large scale that had the turbo-compounds fully detailed.

Since I'm not spending a lot of time on this model, I airbrushed the gloss white on the inside wheel well doors, and the wheel wells while on the sprue. And then rattle-canned Tamiya Silver Leaf on the landing gear and the prop blades. By using a solvent-based paint, I can use acrylic for the detailing and not have to worry about color bleed. This will all be nicely dried by tomorrow.

The gear doors need red edging which I'll do later. The prop blades get black booting and white/red/white warning stripes at the their tips.

Hello!

I'd love to take a look here, too!

Now I don't know how exact you want to be here, but please note the differences between the -5 and -7 variants. The canopy I can see in the pictures and the styrene kits I know are -7 version. I read for example, that in the -7 the pilot seat was raised and the canopy was made more "bubbly" to give the pilot better visibility.

Here's a good article on that - be careful, if you read it the build will get complicated!

https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2020/03/lockheed-p2v-5-vs-7-neptune.html

Good luck with your project and have a nice day!

Paweł

The last use of the Norden bombsite was in P2Vs in Operation Igloo White dropping aucoustic sensors on the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

Bill

I'm glad you went to the trouble because I always learn from your posts.

I built it- once was enough. My biggest challenge was getting the piston engine nacelles to go together.

It's a very interesting airplane and there was a gate guardian at Moffett NAS which was close to where I grew up.

Bill

Yes! it's that kit and it does appear to be a pain. I went to put this added info into the post, but for some reason, my keyboard wasn't inputting any letters. I had to reboot the MacBook Pro to get it to work again. I also lost the entire post when first writing it, when I inadvertantly opened another web page without hitting the plus sign. The new page overwrote the FSM page. I immediately realized what I had done, but the damage already occurred. All my wonderful words were gone. The second version was actually better than the first.

Following with interest.

Im guessing that this is the Hasegawa kit. Yes that's a real bear of a kit.

No images are showing up unfortunately. EDIT: I see them now.

The overhead canopy panels are tinted green and the throttles are up there I believe.

Bill