P61 Black Widow Dorsal Invasion Stripes

On D-Day, the 422nd was not an operational squadron. It was still working up. They had been issued 6 block 5, P61A's. These were OD and Grey without the turret. The book Combat Profiles, P61 squadrons, has a picture of 2 a/c it says are 422 Squadron with invasion stripes wrapped around the booms and top and bottom of the wings. Profiles of later a/c only have them on the bottom.

Maybe this can follow the "create" theread in general discussion. If you want to create a model, put the invasion stripes where you want. If you want to build, or copy the subject, follow the picture.

Hi!, i was also wondering about the invasion stripes on the p-61, this topic helped me a lot, but please would be wonderful if someone out there may have and send me some pics of p-61´s with diferent markings (i mean invasion stripes).

Thanks so much
My very best regards
Hector Reymundo
hreymundo@yahoo.com

gregtarris,,
You can do what ever you like. If you cant find what your looking for, you can always build a "what if" a/c from a sqd.
There were so many a/c that were used during WWII, who can say yours is right or wrong.
One good example is to go to Blackwolf's thread on "P-51"(pg 5 or 6). That is my mustang that I did from the 357th FG. I made it as a "what if" a/c. I am sure this Stang never existed but hey you never know.
Unless someone somewhere has a photo of every a/c flown by the 357th FG or any other group, then they can't say to you that that particular ship never existed. Know what I'm trying to say?
You have to be happy w/ what you build and how you build. I'm looking forward to seeing some pics of your P-61 on this site.
Flaps up,MIke

Albert, thanks for pointing that article out. The article says that only night fighters used over shipping lanes or invasion areas were ordered (2 days after the invasion started) to have stripes but that most used over the UK or accompanying bomber command to Germany had them to avoid confusion.

The whole idea is I would like to do a black P61A that DID have dorsal invasion stripes. Hey what can I say, I want to be different or at least my models can be. I was planning on doing Husslin Hussy but if I can find other decals, or make my own for a black P61 A that had dorsal stripes( with a foto reference) I would like to do so.

BTW, thanks for all your comments so far. Seems like this is a real challenge to verify the foto and dorsal application of stripes.

See the March issue of FSM for invasion stripe info, which also says that gliders were striped after a request by the pilots.

Echolmberg is correct, the following aircraft were exempt from striping: four engine bombers, air transports, gliders, night fighters and seaplanes.

kinda odd that glider tugs and troop transports had to be striped but not gliders.

Hi gang! From what I've read (please correct me if I'm mistaken) U.S. night fighters were supposed to have been exempt from the invasion stripe rules. They were not supposed to carry them at all but the word of that did not reach the night fighter squadrons until after some had been applied. They had been partially applied (bottoms) and it was decided to leave them that way and leave the tops unstriped. So from my understanding, it may have been possible that some P-61s were left without stripes even during D-Day. Let's just say that if you decided to model your Widow without stripes I don't think you'd be wrong in doing so. As the other writers have stated, check your references to see exactly what your plane's scheme was. Which nose art is yours carrying? Which FS/FG? Maybe that will help shed some light on the situation. I hope this has helped.

Eric

If you are modelling the aircraft for D-day or just after I have a copy of Eisenhower's orders for painting the stripes.

Whaz up gregtarris,
I know what you mean
It varied on how the invasion stripes were applied. This all from memory now.
1. (Start of D- Day) The a/c had both wings and fuselage w/ the invasion stripes being wrap around.

2. (Mid way through) They removed the markings from the upper surfaces leaving the invasion stripes on the underside.

Some a/c that entered after D-Day just had the stripes on the bottom of the wings and fuselage like stated above. Some a/c just had the stripes on the lowwer wings only and some had them on the fuselage only. This usually came about from orders from the higher ups or how crews may have interpreted them.
Looking at my ref's of a/c that were w/ the 422nd and 425NS, they only had them on the lowwer half of the booms and wings. But then again what time frame are you looking at?.
Ex: P-61 "Borrowed Time" 42-5547 422 NFS ,1944 had the stripes on the lowwer booms only. It also says that the a/c had wrap around invasion stripes at one time.
I feel anyway you apply the stripes would not be wrong. If your doing a specific a/c then follow how the decals or what you see in your ref's. I am sure someone out there will say I'm wrong. The above example taken out of Aero Master "Midnight Widows # 48-474. Like I said this is from memory..!!
Flaps up, Mike