P-61 Black Widow

As far as the paint scheme goes, depending on who recieved the order for the Widow first they all experimented in different schemes first w/ olive all over then went from there (most "A" models w/ shorter noses had white noses as the first radar's were more light receptive as I understood) gloss black seemed to be the color that most prefer as it was harder to spot by search lights from below. Allthough, some Euro countries developed they're own scheme for the Widow depending on the role they were intended to be used for . The R.A.F. hoped to use the Widow as a replacement for the Mosquito, Boston, and a few other planes all in one punch had the war continued longer.
diablo31
hellsangel@mailcity.com

Thanks a lot! if some one out there has pics of P-61´s in Olive Drab that want to share please let me know, or just please send them to my e mail, once again THANK YOU ALL!!! :-)

My Best Regards
Hector Reymundo

My grandfather flew a "C" model w/ turret , oddly thoogh it had been painted in in R.A.F. upper green and bleu, black lower w/ invasion stripes on the bottom half of booms and wings. Markings were R.A.F. as well, even though it flew out of Kinsale and somewheres out of northern England. I did my revell kit in these markings. Had to hand paint most of the markings though, what a bitch!! Try to send pictures if I can find the digital cam.

Indeed toadwbg, as far as i know there´s two versions "A" and "B", the first version of the P-61 (the A version) was with the top turret but because of buffeting problems was deleted from the second half, then in the "B" version (that was longer) the plane was again with the top turret on but again was deleted from the second half because of the B-29, general electric (i guess) neded the systems used on the P-61 for the B-29 proyect, so as i understand both "A" and "B" versions had the top turret on and off. Also i think that the first "A" planes were painted in Olive drab with Neutral grey, and then all were painted in gloss black. Please correct me if i am wrong, and from what i uderstand is correct if i paint the plane with the stripes all over the wing and booms or only the bottom part, am i right?????? :-)

Thank you very much Blackwolfscd!!!
My best regards
Hector Reymundo
hreymundo@yahoo.com

Hector,

Concerning the invasion stripes, you could do it either way. The initial application of the stripes saw them completely wrap around all wings and fuselages. This was for easy identification from both the air and the ground.

After a certain time, it was deemed that the upper portions of the stripes could be removed, leaving only the lower parts intact. This was because of the return to "normal air operations", (the days of and after the invasion saw much increased activity in the air) and the continuing need to make allied aircraft easily identifiable from the ground.

Ultimately, they were deemed un-necessary altogether and could be removed entirely, although many units left their aircraft as is until the end of their service lives.

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Everyting you mentioned is possible. FSM had a excellent article on invasion stripes a couple of months agoo- they came and went on the uppersurfaces.

I havn't heard about the missing top turret- maybe a different version?

Although some of us are sticklers for historical accuracy- I would reccomend do what you think looks best!

Hi! hey i have a question, i´ve beeen trying to paint a P-61 in a 48th scale, i first thought that i might paint the plane in black with the top turret on but then i saw a pic where the plane was in Olive Drab without the top turret and with a white nose so i thought the plane would look prettier without the top turret and in olive drab with the white nose, but then i saw another pic of a P-61 in olive drab with the invasion stripes, the instruction sheet says that the invasion stripes are only painted in the bottom part of the plane but in the pic i saw the plane all painted, i mean the invasion stripes were painted all over the wing ( at least thats what can be seen ) and all over the booms, but is this right? can any one out there help me??

QUOTE: Originally posted by blackwolfscd I think someone may have taken a similar shot of "Margie", because I swear I've seen it before. Been searching like mad! I remember the name on the nose fersher... Gotta love Black Widows! Fade to Black...

In that case I'd LOVE to see it too!

I think someone may have taken a similar shot of "Margie", because I swear I've seen it before. Been searching like mad! I remember the name on the nose fersher...

Gotta love Black Widows!

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Huskerguy
Still need to repair the landing gear? Drill a hole in the strut and where it broke off. Glue in some rod or sprue the same size as the hole. It will reinforce the break. As I have said in some other threads, I like to mix some 2 part, 5 minute epoxy to hold BB's or shot that i like to use.

Semper Fi

Hi there! I've just finished my Monogram P61. It was alot of work. Ingraved panel lines, Fitted Eduards two photo etched sets, and vac formed new canopies.
I'm happy with the results, until I heard a new state of the art 1/48th kit is out from Amtech. Oh well thats life. Needed loads of nose weight. Nose cone packed full of lead shot and then some more in the nacells. A lovely aircraft worth the effort to build the older Monogram/ Revell kit. Maybe someone might do one in 1/32nd?

Butz, I don't see how you could have seen that particular pic before, since Dad took it himself and it's been languishing in his memory box for 60 years. Maybe someone else took a pic of Margie, though. Dad only flew her that once - the NF squadron was short pilots and asked the regular fighter groups for volunteers. Dad wanted to fly everything, so he gave it a shot. Next thing he knows he's flying in pitch dark, the gunner sitting behind him is kicking him on the shoulder yelling "pull out!" the horizon ball is pegged into a corner and the altimeter is unwinding. He pulled so hard he set up a tail flutter and there went the paint! :D

For weights, I go to my local hobbyshop to the railroad section. They have "tape" weights. Flat, narrow lead bars that are segmented and will break off in any length and weight that you want. They have tape on the back side. You just peel and stick wherever you want.

Nope, no more Mauve kits. But one could be had for a more than nominal fee... Man, I think we should start our own chat thread instead of clogging this one up! LOL

Lawrence, WE WANT LIVE CHAT! LOL

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Ya know Steve I may have a few ideas to where I can look on the 61 pic. But than again my ideas usually turn into brain farts.
I may have some leads................. Does Dan have any more Mauve kits??
Flaps up,Mike

Actually, I was only joking about the 32nd. Though he is taking trades in both scales! (Surprise, surprise!)

Anyhoo, I did manage to get another couple of kits out of him. Some armor and a Mauve P-40.

And negative on the F/A-18, Rich wanted to give up his Hasegagme F-16 and give it to Wayne so he could start on the Hornet, but we convinced him to keep the Viper and finish it. It looks too good for him to pull his usual maneuver. Needless to say, Wayne wasn't too happy about us intervening! LOL

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Hey Blackwolf,
What, did Rich give Dan his Academy 32d 18 ALREADY...?????
Flaps up,Mike

Butz,

Haven't you heard? Dan's already into 32nd again. Get 'em while you can! (Before I clean him out, that is! )

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Whaz up Blackwolf,
Yes good ol "mother nature". She sure can be mean cant she..LOL
Cool pics too. Its still gonna bother me about that pic John P posted. I know I've seen it.
Guess I'm going hunting very soon....... I'm soo looking forward to the AMtech Widow Maybe I'll be giving the ol Monogram kits to good ol Dan unless he changes scales again.
Flaps up, Mike

Huskerguy, I don't remember how the instructions go on this kit, but I always put the landing gear on very last if possible, that way it doesn't get knocked off during so much handling that goes on. The same goes for other small details (arials, guns, etc.)

As for the BBs. It's really pretty simple. I think on this kit I put he weight in the nose (and sealed the nose off /glued it shut instead of having it removable to show the radar). Turn the thing upside down (opening up) Drop a few BB's in the nose, add just a little superglue, enough to freeze them in place. Repeat by adding more, and more and more until your happy. No need to overdo it with the superglue. Let this all dry in place for about a good hour. Now come back and pour in the Elmer's glue to fill up all the cracks. Ths can take a few days to dry completely but now you've got a rock solid and heavy nose to weight ths puppy down.

Butz,

You may have seen several photos similar to that one. P-61's shedding paint en masse was a common occurrence, especially in the PTO & CBI.

There were several contributing factors to paint peeling off of P-61's almost in sheets, but it comes down to weather, operational conditions and maintenance, all of which were aided by poor paint adhesion. Given these conditions, any violent maneuvering might, indeed, have been enough to shed a bunch of paint all at once. And I do seem to recall reading a similar story somewhere in a book or a rag.

I ran across a shot (which I can't find at the moment) of a Black Widow in France that had just been prepared for action at a depot after coming over on a ship. The sealing tape used to protect the aircraft had peeled the paint off in neat strips along the panel lines. Really neat lookin' photo.

Anyhoo, here's some more shots of PTO & CBI P-61's sporting a similar look.







By the way, John P, if that shot was taken on Ie Shima in '45, 'tis most likely a P-61 of the 548th NFS.

Here's the 548th's emblem. Kind of a coincidence, I just finished making a hand-painted replica on leather. Feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone... doo-doo-doo-doo...



Can't wait for the AmTech kit!

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QUOTE: Originally posted by John P Here's that Widow that Dad got into a "graveyard spiral." Margie, squadron uncertain, Ie Shima, 1945. I've been going to use the Monogram kit to model her for years now, but now i think I'll wait for the AMtech kit.

For some reason I cant really place it but I seen this same pic in a book once before(it will come to me,just give me time. I think I saw it in an Air Power book).
I remember seeing the section of the boom w/out the paint and thinking how did the insignia stay on(must have used a lot of solvaset)
Flaps up, Mike

i have had some problems getting this thing together. I couldnt get the booms to glue to the wing section first time around, and in the process knocked off the nose wheel and the left main gear. Dont tell me how clumsy i am. But, why dont they make the gear stronger. To me, that is the real wink link in most kits. And once you break one, they are a bitchkitty to glue back on again. Any suggestions?????

My experience with the old Monogram kit (which I hear is now re-issued as a Revell kit) has been good ... I enjoyed building this kit and am happy with the results. I will look forward to the Amtech kit mentioned above. The 1/1 scale a/c was/is a really cool looking plane.

Here's that Widow that Dad got into a "graveyard spiral." Margie, squadron uncertain, Ie Shima, 1945. I've been going to use the Monogram kit to model her for years now, but now i think I'll wait for the AMtech kit.



At least I don't have to worry about not knowing her serial number for the markings (apart from the "4" at the end :D)

The Mid-Atlantic Air Museum has been restoring that BW back to flying condition for going on 20 years now, I wish they'd hurry up and finish it!

Please, no comments on how difficult it is to get a warbird back into the air, especially such a rare bird like the P-61. It was a JOKE! (humor? whazzat?)

I'm not greatly involved in restoring warbirds, but I am most appreciative of what it takes to get these things flying again. I remember seeing MAAM's B-25, "Briefing Time" at many an airshow when in my early and mid teens, and talking to the guys about the P-61. Here, I'm now 30 freakin' years old and that thing is still "gonna be flyin' in a year or two". LOL I just love the warbird scene...

Here's a shot of the MAAM P-61.



Here's a link to Mid Atlantic's website:

http://www.maam.org/

For more shots of the P-61 project, click on "the Widow's Web".

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With the exception of the darned turret...the Avenger turned out pretty well for an amateur. Thanks for the info on the "Widow"...i thought it would probably be easier to do all the interior green...and i am using model master. By the way, how the heck do you "stack" BB's, so the super glue holds?

Hey Huskerguy- I've built this kit in the past, it's a fun one. In fact, I'm going to have to get another one someday soon.

I'd reccomend BBs (from a BB gun) for weighting the thing down. I use superglue to initially hold them in place and then drown them in Elmer's White glue to really keep them in there.

Yup, the canopy masking can be a pain on this one. Since the are nice little squares, I did mine with Scotch clear tape and cut them to size with a very sharp Xacto knife.

Interior Green- Yeah, spray all your green stuff at once and then assemble. I'd reccomend Testors Model Master Interior Green for this- works well when airbrushing.

How did your Avenger turn out? I still havn't started mine!

Toad

Hi Huskerguy. For noseweights see if you can scrounge or buy some car wheel ballance weights used for alloy wheels they are in strips, are in 5 and 10 ounce increments and have a self adhesive back. they are ideal if you havn't got much room in the kits nose. Gregers