Ok. I get that some aren't happy with the change, but to leave the forums over it, well I don't understand what that accomplishes. I guess you have to do what you have to do. Change isn't for everyone, but imagine how boring our lives would be if it never did. Sometimes it changes for the better, other times for the worse. Roll with the punches.

Good luck wherever you may go.

It will be a shame to see any one leave. But i can understand why. I am haveing to force myself with the site now, its not so much a pleasure as it was. But i know the people here will make up for that.

And i know what you mean about the medals. Butrs its just a little bit of fun at the end of the day.

Sorry to hear that Dom, you've been a good friend. If you do decide to return we'll be here to welcome you back.

Honestly I know what you mean, it seems like the new 'improved' format has me doing about five times as much scrolling as I used to and things that I used to do with a single click now takes two, three, or even more. I probably won't be spending anywhere near the time on the site as I used to. Still, I'm going to keep whacking away at it trying to get used to things.

Cliff 

Cliff, let's hope the forum takes some suggestions to heart and improves it over time. Eventually we can get used to anything. I could never understand the ado over the last forum change.

Well Craig Kudlow just told me they're addressing one of my biggest gripes about the new format so that bodes well. I'm more than happy to wait around and see how things go.  

tigerman

Eventually we can get used to anything.

I don't understand that mentality at all.  Sure we can get used to it---just like you could get used to a beating every day.  But why would/should you?  Another school of thought is that anyone who complains about the Forum change is "stuck in the past, inflexible, old or narrow-minded"...Truth is simply this:  some change is for the worse.  Its up to every member to decide for themselves if the change is bad for them or not.  

This change, IMO, has the same hallmarks as to when Coke came out with NEW Coke...

We want Classic Coke... 

Then it was gone !! I was just gettin comfortable with the old ways. This new format does seem abit more labor intensive,LOL. Gettin over it though.

Out of over 52,000 accounts, less than 3 (that we know of) have a big enough gripe to actually leave.  I'd call this update a success, and the right move on FSM's part.  If we want to participate in this forum bad enough, we will adapt and continue on.  Until the next update that is. Then we go trough this again.

I hate to see anyone leave, but if you rather drink Classic Coke, I believe most of us understand.

Well, i wouldn't call it a success. People simple putting up with it doesn't mean its right. If the forum wasn't full of great people, i would be off. But i am willing to stick with it, good or bad.

I don't really find the medals good or bad - a bit confusing perhaps. (All I see are 5x red or 5x gray - is there a "scoring system") Wonder if it's something they can simply replace the graphics on - 5 red balls mean as much as 5 red medals.

Bockscar - I'd love to see you stick around if that's the only issue. I doubt they are done fine-tuning this time around.

Echo139er

Out of over 52,000 accounts, less than 3 (that we know of) have a big enough gripe to actually leave.  I'd call this update a success, and the right move on FSM's part.  If we want to participate in this forum bad enough, we will adapt and continue on.  Until the next update that is. Then we go trough this again.

I hate to see anyone leave, but if you rather drink Classic Coke, I believe most of us understand.

That 52,000 number doesn't represent those who frequently frequent this site...c'mon...its like comparing registered voters and likely voters---but with even a wider gap (I believe it actually represents every person who has ever registered on this site---and many of those people haven't been on in years). 

And its not about people announcing their leaving or not...its more about wether or not people actually think the change is for the better or not...and in that vein I'd say its no better than a 50/50 split at best for those who think it is better...

I didn't like it at first but they seem to be addressing the complaints. I didn't like having to scroll back to the top every time I read a thread, I griped about it and Craig added a link menu to the bottom too.

BTW: Manny you can jump right to the last page of any thread by clicking on the highlighted Latest Post to the right under replies.

Topic	Date	Replies
Bockscar	Way too much format..... Posted by Bockscar Viewed 119 times	Latest post by Manstein's revenge 06-28-2012 2:01 PM

Manstein's revenge

And its not about people announcing their leaving or not...its more about wether or not people actually think the change is for the better or not...and in that vein I'd say its no better than a 50/50 split at best for those who think it is better...

Actually, you need to take a step back even further and ask which people you should be lumping in that group. I bet that Kalmbach thinks it's a pretty good improvement. The users (myself included) who are not subscribers and just free loaders... should they matter as much? Obviously the forums and site are used to entice people to subscribe, but since it is essentially a free service, the most important people to be happy about it are Kalmbach, then subscribers, and then those who are on the cusp of subscribing.

Mobile is important. New users are important. Kalmbach & FSM need to make sure they are not a dinosaur. Note that I'm not saying that this means they should turn their back on the print and web users, I'm just saying that when you say "people" you actually need to consider all of the people in the mix and not just the general web forum users.

I'm just happy that they haven't gone to a Facebook-driven forum, to be honest.

Okay, maybe I missed it, but I did not see any announcement about this change.  I saw it for the first time when I got on this evening.  I think the biggest mistake was not making an announcement that this change was coming.  Simply springing it on everyone without any previous notice is always going to get a negative reaction.  Nobody likes to be surprised.  It is like lighting a fire cracker behind someone and watching them jump when it explodes.  Never going to be a good thing.

Ken

I don't know why this is in group builds...but a few thoughts.

First - while they didn't "let us know" per se, they did pre-announce that they were taking the forums down. I expected something, but not this.

Second - I HATE the way this change has siloed the forums. In the past the main page was a compact list of the different forums, then a feed of all of them. Since I don't limit myself to one forum, it was a great way to keep up with the overall flow of the site. I know you can still do it (not on mobile though), but getting there is cumbersome and, beside, I'd bet most other's aren't, which means siloed.

Third - Not opening to the most recent reply in mobile environments is ridiculous, especially on group build threads that span hundreds of pages.

Four - If I were Kalmbach, I wouldn't be worried about the three or so people leaving in a fuss. I'd be worried about the people like me - frequent posters who are using the forums far less frequently since this change. Things have just felt like they've gone quiet. I tend to subscribe to a lot of threads. Most days, it's not unusual for me to get 30-40 emails. Since the change, it's been maybe 5-10. I'd be curious what the backend stats on daily posting rate say.

I don't plan on leaving, but I have to admit I've somewhat lost that lovin' feeling. And I've been spending more and more time with a younger, better looking forum of late...because I can navigate the friggin' thing and it makes it easy for me to keep up with the overall flow of conversation. Even on mobile.

*cough*

Okay, "Site Maintenance" does not equal "Face lift / Overhaul".  When I see a notice for "Site Maintenance", this typically means that the server/database that the site resides on needs some type of work, not the site itself.  BIG difference!

Ken

The big and it's big- benefit is usability on iPads and phones.

I really only cruise this forum on handhelds, and the new format is touch screen friendly.

Brilliant IMO

...and couldn't they have at least corrected the spelling on this "smiley" while the site was down???

I agee that a "heads-up" woulda been nice instead of just springing it on everyone when the site came back up...in a business environment with employees a change like this w/o prep/warning would have been rude at best and a disaster at worst...it almost begs a few obvious questions...

As far as people using mobile devices it just may very well be better, but since I don't access this site except from laptops it isn't for me...

I agree with DOOGSATX...the last two changes has dropped me "further down in the weeds" in this site...it takes more "work" to be in here...that takes a lot of the fun outta it...

The "DITTO" is for DOOGSATX's post above...forgot to quote him and don't know how to edit yet...

Already they addressed my biggest complaint: having to scroll to the top to pick on the forums. Good job FSM.

Give them time and it will be fine-tuned and before you know it, this will all be old hat. I do like how the mobile FSM is easier to use. Huge plus.

Manstein's revenge

The "DITTO" is for DOOGSATX's post above...forgot to quote him and don't know how to edit yet...

Hit rich formatting, go to "quote" under the response and bingo. It doesn't get much easier. 

Hey Guys

Listen i snapped, and I apologize,

I hope I didn't offend you or FSM.

I shouldn't have got so bent, and it's

not FSM's new design that is at fault.

I had a week of nasty server, email,

crash issues, and contact software issues.

When I logged on I thought some demon

was playing a prank on me. I don't

come home and "kick the dog."

We'll sort it out.

Thanks,

Dom

We all get a bit trigger happy sometimes Dom. When i first saw the changes i thought i was on the wrong site. But well get there in the end. Now get ur butt back to the Berny GB.

Glad to hear it Dom. Be patient. Things will work out.

Manstein's revenge

The "DITTO" is for DOOGSATX's post above...forgot to quote him and don't know how to edit yet...

Bottom left of your post, there is a small pencil, use that to edit.

While i still don't like the look and it is a bit more awkward to get around the site, replying to posts editing and quoteing are 3 of the things that i find have been made better. Now if only we could have a go to recent posts button at the top of every page.

Im learning more and more every day.

Glad to hear it Dom, I'd hate to lose you.