Blitzkrieg in the West (France 1940) Sept. 18 2011 - March 1 2012

Tim and Ryan, glad to have you guys in. Our first quarter scale.

william carls

 tread @ Vit13

Hi Vit13 thanks man for answering my 'BCC' question, I really appreciate it and especially for thanks for that link http://cavaliers.blindes.free.fr/rgtdissous/bcc/bcc.html   I am learning so much already!

you can just call me 'tread' .. that's my 'on line' tag or you you can call me bill... william is so formal !

Thank you again for the link and the the help

tread....   Je suis desole, mais je ne parle pas en francais. ... good thing Google does!

Hello tread

you're welcome :)

it 's a pleasure to help you . My english is not very good , but i hope you understand me . :)

Tim, glad to be of assistance!

BaBill, yep, the scheme was a "universal" scheme for all vehicles/gear used in the campaign and was ordered beginning in Nov '38. HTH!

Hi Vit13. Your English (spelling and grammar) is better then many I see on Facebook and other forums and English is their native tongue!

Thank ya kindly wBill...........   much obliged

Eric here"s my submission for this G.B., Italeri Panzer kpfw 1b in 1/35th . the vehicle i'll build served with the 1st Pz battalion ,25th Pz regiment ,7th Pz division . Commanded by Rommel , western France , june .1940 .

Nice kit Carl. Those old Italeri kits build up pretty good.

wbill76

Tim, glad to be of assistance!

BaBill, yep, the scheme was a "universal" scheme for all vehicles/gear used in the campaign and was ordered beginning in Nov '38. HTH!

Bill, would all the panzers have this 2 tone brown/ gray camo in the French campaign or would some be straight panzer gray?

Carl,,,  I agree with John             I really like those Italeri Pz I's....   I think I have built 4 or 5 and still have, at least, 3 still in inventory...    great kit

John and Bill , either of you know what the markings should be for this vehicle , 1sr pz. bat , 25th pz reg. ,7th pz div , western Somme , 1940 ? The instructions are not clear . Looks like it is overall Pz . gray.

Not exactly sure Carl,,,  I'll dig around and see if I come up with something for you.........

John/Shellback,

All panzers for France 1940 should have the 2-tone scheme to be accurate. It used to be thought that straight panzer gray was the norm when some of the older (and not so older) kits were released and the markings sheets reflect that understanding. This is due to the fact that it's very hard to pick out the 2-tone scheme in b/w photos especially if the vehicle in question has any kind of dust coat or even if the lighting isn't just right. The ordered scheme from Nov '38 to July '40 was 2/3 panzer gray, 1/3 dark brown and is the standard for both the Polish and French campaigns. Prior to Nov '38 the ordered scheme was a three-tone hard-edged scheme and vehicles painted in that scheme were to be repainted by units in the field to convert to the two-tone as time permitted. The monotone panzer gray scheme didn't get ordered until July '40 and remained in effect until Feb '43 when it was replaced by dunkelgelb and the familiar three-tone field applied combo of DY/RB/OG.  

What Tamiya paints would match these 2 colors? Or what other brands are a good match?

wBill,,,,   thanks             you helped me too...   plus I didn't have to dig !           appreciate the help

Tim,,       I don't have a readily available answer, other than I do like Tamiya's XF-63 German Grey....  although I have heard it may be a little on the dark side....    I'm sure some other info will pop up shortly.

BaBill212

Not exactly sure Carl,,,  I'll dig around and see if I come up with something for you.........

Thanks Bill . The instructions show a cross on top of the turret . I'm guessing the cross is white with a white 13 on the turret side .

wbill76

John/Shellback,

All panzers for France 1940 should have the 2-tone scheme to be accurate. It used to be thought that straight panzer gray was the norm when some of the older (and not so older) kits were released and the markings sheets reflect that understanding. This is due to the fact that it's very hard to pick out the 2-tone scheme in b/w photos especially if the vehicle in question has any kind of dust coat or even if the lighting isn't just right. The ordered scheme from Nov '38 to July '40 was 2/3 panzer gray, 1/3 dark brown and is the standard for both the Polish and French campaigns. Prior to Nov '38 the ordered scheme was a three-tone hard-edged scheme and vehicles painted in that scheme were to be repainted by units in the field to convert to the two-tone as time permitted. The monotone panzer gray scheme didn't get ordered until July '40 and remained in effect until Feb '43 when it was replaced by dunkelgelb and the familiar three-tone field applied combo of DY/RB/OG.  

I dont know why this posted .....................

wbill76

John/Shellback,

All panzers for France 1940 should have the 2-tone scheme to be accurate. It used to be thought that straight panzer gray was the norm when some of the older (and not so older) kits were released and the markings sheets reflect that understanding. This is due to the fact that it's very hard to pick out the 2-tone scheme in b/w photos especially if the vehicle in question has any kind of dust coat or even if the lighting isn't just right. The ordered scheme from Nov '38 to July '40 was 2/3 panzer gray, 1/3 dark brown and is the standard for both the Polish and French campaigns. Prior to Nov '38 the ordered scheme was a three-tone hard-edged scheme and vehicles painted in that scheme were to be repainted by units in the field to convert to the two-tone as time permitted. The monotone panzer gray scheme didn't get ordered until July '40 and remained in effect until Feb '43 when it was replaced by dunkelgelb and the familiar three-tone field applied combo of DY/RB/OG.  

WBill , thanks a heap for all of that info . Like you said the kit is older and shows a monotone gray . i'll look and see what i can find as far as what pattern the dark brown was applied .

The Ghost Division, nice Carl.

This thread has taught me a lot already. Two-toned  camo. That's another.

tigerman

The Ghost Division, nice Carl.

This thread has taught me a lot already. Two-toned  camo. That's another.

Same here Eric  .

"Gespensterdivision"

Carl,

This might help, while color-plates they are still handy to show how the pattern would look. Unlike most other German patterns, this one extended to the lower hull and road wheels.

Tim, not sure about Tamiya colors...I use Testors enamels and found that their Schokoladenbraun was a good match for the dark brown. No idea what that would correlate to in the Tamiya line but might give you a start.

To add to my above post...here's what the MM Testors colors produce (with some additional fading/lightening done to the panzer gray portions) in my take on the scheme using Tamiya's Pz II A/B/C kit.

Ich bin in mit einem 1/35 Bastelsatz von Tamiya Panzer II Ausf A/B/C...

WBill , again , thanks heaps for sharing all of the above info with me . Those pics are a great help . they gave me some ideas about equipment storage also .

Your research info is a real asset to this G.B. !

My pleasure Carl, that's half the fun of GBs (so I'm told), the research!

Shellback

BaBill212:

Not exactly sure Carl,,, I'll dig around and see if I come up with something for you.........

Thanks Bill . The instructions show a cross on top of the turret . I'm guessing the cross is white with a white 13 on the turret side .

The cross on the turret, especially in white, sound more like its from the Polish campaign.

This issue about paint scheme has been a very confuseing one. Most of the referance material that is around has stated that Pz Grey was used not only for the french Campaign, but also for Poland. One of the main referances for German armour has been the squadron Pz colours series. This stats that the order to switch to Pz Grey was given in late 1939, and the July 1940 order simply standadized this. Add this to the fact that in b&w photos it is very hard to that two colours have been used, have added to the idea of Pz Grey for Fance.

I do believe that in another discussion on this that it was mention that the original order for Pz Grey was issued in early 1940, and that some newly built vehicles used in France may have been painted this way. I think one of the early Pz Tracts books was mentioned as a source, but can't recall which one.

Its seem to be that the further we get from WW2, the more we seem to understand the thruth about many things.

As bill mentioned, most kits, old and new, show vehicle in Pz Grey. This includes the newish Tamiya Pz II's, both the Polish and French campaign kits. But Dragon has at least one kit in the two colour scheme. If you can find a pic of the box art, this may help in working out how to apply it.

wbill76

To add to my above post...here's what the MM Testors colors produce (with some additional fading/lightening done to the panzer gray portions) in my take on the scheme using Tamiya's Pz II A/B/C kit.

That's a really nice camo. I'm consitering using it.

I like that as well.........   thanks for the info / pics wBill  

What's the official swatch for the brown and what acrylics can you find it in?

Bish

 

Shellback:

BaBill212:

Not exactly sure Carl,,, I'll dig around and see if I come up with something for you.........

Thanks Bill . The instructions show a cross on top of the turret . I'm guessing the cross is white with a white 13 on the turret side .

 

The cross on the turret, especially in white, sound more like its from the Polish campaign.

This issue about paint scheme has been a very confuseing one. Most of the referance material that is around has stated that Pz Grey was used not only for the french Campaign, but also for Poland. One of the main referances for German armour has been the squadron Pz colours series. This stats that the order to switch to Pz Grey was given in late 1939, and the July 1940 order simply standadized this. Add this to the fact that in b&w photos it is very hard to that two colours have been used, have added to the idea of Pz Grey for Fance.

I do believe that in another discussion on this that it was mention that the original order for Pz Grey was issued in early 1940, and that some newly built vehicles used in France may have been painted this way. I think one of the early Pz Tracts books was mentioned as a source, but can't recall which one.

Its seem to be that the further we get from WW2, the more we seem to understand the thruth about many things.

As bill mentioned, most kits, old and new, show vehicle in Pz Grey. This includes the newish Tamiya Pz II's, both the Polish and French campaign kits. But Dragon has at least one kit in the two colour scheme. If you can find a pic of the box art, this may help in working out how to apply it.

 

 

Is this getting interesting ? Yes !!! Its great all of the info that i've learned so far ! Thanks Bish .

To be honest i still find it all very confuseing. This period and the late war period, say the last 6 months of the war, can be a real headache. But, if anyone just wanted to say to hell with it and paint their kits Pz Grey, i don't think anyone would get to upset. But at least you have the info to make up your own mind.