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OPERATION OVERLORD- 70th Anniversary Group Build

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  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
OPERATION OVERLORD- 70th Anniversary Group Build
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 1:02 AM

Hey guys and gals... Right now, this is just a place-holder of sorts, but there's a method to my madness..

I wanna get a GB fired up that will begin on 6 JUNE 2013 and end on 6 JUNE 2014...  Giving everyone about a year's heads-up, which is to some, rather mornic, since if any of you got CRS Syndrome like me, you'll likely forget about the thread for a year...

But, I plan on following though, keeping it on the first three pages or so, perhaps... Details will emerge as we get closer to the start date next June.. Like a better GB Title..

There're a few details I can think of right now, but in a nutshell, if it was used near, on, or flew above Omaha, Utah, Gold, Juno, or Sword Beaches and the surrounding German-held positions on 6 JUNE 44, or the following days until about D+24, it's in... 

Oh yeah.. With a year's head's-up, there shouldn't be a need for cross-overs... Start your kit-hunting early, and set it aside..  Paint some black & white stripes on the box or something  to remind you...

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:55 AM

Great theme.....Glad to see this one Hans.  I don't recall seeing a 'strictly D-Day' GB since I've been here.

Will try to participate in this one.

bob

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:37 AM

O, now this is a neat idea. You are sure you have the dates right this time Wink

Of course, i am in. I have a couple of German armour kits that will fit, but i think i know what i will be building.

''I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so''

On the bench: Revell 1/72nd Type VIIc U-Boat

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by gunner_chris on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:53 AM

I'm interested!  Great idea.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:21 AM

I can give you a definate maybe Hans. Sorry but I don't know what I'm doing an hour from now much less a year. Still I've got a pile of American/British/Canadian kits that would work.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:49 AM

in!

I don't think giving this much lead time is that odd, considering the subject. It's a big # anniversary. After the initial push has happened over the next  little while, you could probably just make sure to add a new post on... 6th of every month?? So it stays active without chewing up too much of the front page space.

Now, the kit to build...

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:53 AM

VanceCrozier

in!

I don't think giving this much lead time is that odd, considering the subject. It's a big # anniversary. After the initial push has happened over the next  little while, you could probably just make sure to add a new post on... 6th of every month?? So it stays active without chewing up too much of the front page space.

Now, the kit to build...

 

Ye, good idea. Otherwise we will have dozens of pages before it even starts.

''I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so''

On the bench: Revell 1/72nd Type VIIc U-Boat

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 1:43 PM

Bish

 

 VanceCrozier:

 

in!

I don't think giving this much lead time is that odd, considering the subject. It's a big # anniversary. After the initial push has happened over the next  little while, you could probably just make sure to add a new post on... 6th of every month?? So it stays active without chewing up too much of the front page space.

Now, the kit to build...

 

 

 

Ye, good idea. Otherwise we will have dozens of pages before it even starts.

I'd recommend this staying around as the "announcement" thread, then starting a separate official GB thread when the time comes.

In for sure. Not 100% settled on what I'll build, but I'm leaning toward the 1/32 MDC Hawker Typhoon I just ordered. One of those planes that just looks right in invasion stripes. Need to check if the markings support it, but perhaps the PCM Spitfire XIV...if I haven't caved and built both by then.

Course, there's also Tasca's M4A1 with the hedgerow cutter...could be a contender as well.

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 7:53 PM

Hans, I'm in too.  Doogs' ideas are so good but I don't want to be a copy cat. Smile  I'd love to do a Tyffie or a TASCA Sherman.  I'll wait to see what he's doing and then take the left overs. 

Kinda sounds like my high school social life...

 

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:28 PM

I am definately in on this one.I have no idea what kit.I'll think of something.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, June 15, 2012 4:48 PM

I am in. Dont know what yet because I have oh so many kits in my stash to choose from. From big to small... by next June I will have a choice...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • From: Japan
Posted by Frightful6_7 on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:46 AM

Pretty sure i am in on this.  I was thinking a diorama of a C-47 dropping some paratroopers will get back on that.

http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/Tempest977/Rising%20Sun%20Group%20Build/zero1-2-1-2.jpg

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:20 PM

DoogsATX

 Bish:

 

 VanceCrozier:

 

in!

I don't think giving this much lead time is that odd, considering the subject. It's a big # anniversary. After the initial push has happened over the next  little while, you could probably just make sure to add a new post on... 6th of every month?? So it stays active without chewing up too much of the front page space.

Now, the kit to build...

 

 

 

Ye, good idea. Otherwise we will have dozens of pages before it even starts.

 

I'd recommend this staying around as the "announcement" thread, then starting a separate official GB thread when the time comes.

That's the plan, Doogs... I'll have it ready to go with a decent title..

 I just wanted this thread to be around as the time grows near, and not let anyone "Steal the Thunder", lol.. I like Vance's monthly  "6th of the Month" count-down idea too.. 

"Der Längste Tag"...

Gonna start playing with some badges... Y'all think that there should be separate "genre"-badges.. Y'know.. Badge with a plane if you build one, ship badge for the Navy freaks, armor for the Tread-heads, etc.?

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, June 23, 2012 4:58 AM

Badge One- For Allied figures and Infantry dioramas and vignettes..

Planning on Armor, Aviation, Naval ship,  for both sides, Allied and Axis.. (""Der Längste Tag"...)

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, June 23, 2012 5:21 AM

Nice idea on the badges. I do like that one. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for German armour.

''I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so''

On the bench: Revell 1/72nd Type VIIc U-Boat

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:54 AM

Prepare to be amazed, Bish, old chap...

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:17 AM

Dakota will be my build.

Although a OD/NG Widow would be nice, but I don't think they were operational at that time in the ETO

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, June 23, 2012 12:49 PM

Dakota will be my build.

"Dakota" or "Skytrain"? (Makes a difference, ya know... Wink ) Personally, I like the Dakotas that the USAAF took back from the RAF for paint-schemes.. They have RAF camo, but US markings..  Add the Invasion Stripes, and they're an eye-catcher..

Although a OD/NG Widow would be nice, but I don't think they were operational at that time in the ETO.

Yeah, they were, but just... The 422nd and 425th NFSs had their Widows by then, barely..

422d NFS was assigned to the 9th AF in March of '44, and after training with Mossies suppplied by the RAF, the got their P-61s just prior to Overlord, and remained in England until they went to forward bases in France in July of '44...

The 425th NFS was assigned to its first ETO station at RAF Chormy Down, on 26 May 1944, and was also assigned to the 9th AF in England...

I don't know if they had OD/NG paint though.. That might have been late enough to get them delivered in Black..  In the diorama I built, "Striping the Widow",  I used an OD/NG paint-scheme anyway...

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 23, 2012 1:57 PM

God bless GoogleToast

The closest 61 in this shot looks like it is OD/NG, while the other two certainly look black...

File:422d Night Fighter Squadron - P-61 Black Widows.jpg

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 23, 2012 1:57 PM

God bless GoogleToast

The closest 61 in this shot looks like it is OD/NG, while the other two certainly look black...

File:422d Night Fighter Squadron - P-61 Black Widows.jpg

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Saturday, June 23, 2012 2:00 PM

Hans von Hammer

 

 

Dakota will be my build.

 

"Dakota" or "Skytrain"? (Makes a difference, ya know... Wink ) Personally, I like the Dakotas that the USAAF took back from the RAF for paint-schemes.. They have RAF camo, but US markings..  Add the Invasion Stripes, and they're an eye-catcher..

 

 

Although a OD/NG Widow would be nice, but I don't think they were operational at that time in the ETO.

 

Yeah, they were, but just... The 422nd and 425th NFSs had their Widows by then, barely..

422d NFS was assigned to the 9th AF in March of '44, and after training with Mossies suppplied by the RAF, the got their P-61s just prior to Overlord, and remained in England until they went to forward bases in France in July of '44...

The 425th NFS was assigned to its first ETO station at RAF Chormy Down, on 26 May 1944, and was also assigned to the 9th AF in England...

I don't know if they had OD/NG paint though.. That might have been late enough to get them delivered in Black..

It will de a Dakota, as the Bondo collection already has a Skytrain. Same old 1/72 Italeri kit though. I like your idea about the camo USAAF scheme very much. And I'm ignorant of the other differences, but that's what makes this hobby fun- research.

Reckon a year is about enough time.

You prompted me to pull down a book, perfect Saturday morning activity now that I am home on weekends. Looks like the 422nd arrived at Charmy Down on March 7, 1944. Transferred to Scorton on May 6th. They received eight O/D P-61A-5s on May 10 at Speke. Because the aircraft had no turrets, their gunners were mostly sent to the 423rd to fly in A-20s. During the training period before they became operational July 7th and flew their first mission on July 15th, they were reprinted in gloss black. I think that was before June 6th, as there's lots of pictures of them in black with invasion stripes. Don't know if aircraft kept getting stripes after D-Day?

The 425th landed at Charmy Down on May 26th and played catch-up with the 422nd, transferring to Scorton on June 12th and receiving A-10 Widows. They became operational at the same time as the 422nd.

These two, along with the 414 and 415 in the MTO, we're the only USAAF squadrons in Europe to receive the Widow before the end of the war.

It's an attractive scheme. All black, with stripes on the bottoms only of the wings and tail booms. Also, the 422nd birds, because they were reprinted in the theater, had all manner of strange radome paint. Yellow, red and oxide red are some. This could be fun.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 23, 2012 2:24 PM

bondoman

 During the training period before they became operational July 7th and flew their first mission on July 15th, they were reprinted in gloss black. I think that was before June 6th, as there's lots of pictures of them in black with invasion stripes. Don't know if aircraft kept getting stripes after D-Day?

 

Look up Bondo, look up!

The stripes were a Theater Identification mark all thru summer of 1944. Any replacement aircraft arriving at an operational unit during that time should have had them applied. While they were removed from the upper wing surface about 6 weeks or so after the initial assault landings, many aircraft had them on lower surfaces throughout the rest of the war.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:16 PM

Hans von Hammer

Badge One- For Allied figures and Infantry dioramas and vignettes..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Group%20Builds/GB%20Badges/Ddayhelemetbadge.jpg

Planning on Armor, Aviation, Naval ship,  for both sides, Allied and Axis.. (""Der Längste Tag"...)

Hans looks great to me! If you want to add more great but I think this one gets the point across quite well.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, June 24, 2012 1:07 PM

stikpusher

 bondoman:

 During the training period before they became operational July 7th and flew their first mission on July 15th, they were reprinted in gloss black. I think that was before June 6th, as there's lots of pictures of them in black with invasion stripes. Don't know if aircraft kept getting stripes after D-Day?

 

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/p61-3.jpg

 

Look up Bondo, look up!

The stripes were a Theater Identification mark all thru summer of 1944. Any replacement aircraft arriving at an operational unit during that time should have had them applied. While they were removed from the upper wing surface about 6 weeks or so after the initial assault landings, many aircraft had them on lower surfaces throughout the rest of the war.

 

All Allied Tactical Aircraft were ordered to be painted with the stripes about June 4-5th (Dad told me that they painted the stripes on all the Squadron's aircraft overnight.. He walked out to the fliightline at 0400 on the 5th and the ground crews had them done ) This would also apply to Widows that weren't yet operational for Overlord, if my info is correct...

The Allied tactical aircraft were also repainted temporarily for Operation Market-Garden, IIRC...

At any rate, an OD/NG P-61 with full "Ovelord" invasion-stripes on 6 JUNE 44  is quite possible..

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Sunday, June 24, 2012 2:24 PM

So would a black one with stripes then. Next to figure out if any had stripes on top. Only a photo will prove that, and my bet is not.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, June 24, 2012 2:42 PM

I have spent the past 30 minutes twice trying to get this photo laden post up only to have it lost once by my own bone up, second time my computer ate it... this is my last attempt.

For you Bondo, a fully striped Widow

Secondly, photos of stripes being applied to various aircraft immediately prior to D-Day

and late summer 1944 when the upper stripes had been removed

I had a LOT more explanation written but after losing it twice I am too pissed to write it all again...

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:30 PM

This is roughly what my "Striping the Widow" diorama looks like..

This one is unusual, having the "Greyed-out" US insignia..

I've got a good reference book that that shows, possibly, ONE  "full-striped and black" Black Widow, BTW...  "Wings of Fame", vol15.. It shows a black P-61 (Double Trouble, assigned to 1LT Robert Bolinder) that appears to have, at least on the booms, full stripes (can't see the top of the wings, it's in a 80-degree vertical bank).. Also, for the OD/NG version, it has a nice, full-page 3-way profile of "Borrowed Time", P-61A-5 (No turret) s/n 42-5547, assigned to 442nd night-fighter ace Herman Ernst as it appeared after Overlord, flying out of A-78 (Florennes) in July, 44..

The order to remove the top stripes from all Allied tactical aircraft came on 6 July, 44... Naturally, it takes time to get around to taking things off operational aircraft, and it would likely only happen when the aircraft came up for its 100-hour checks or a similar maintenence function, or if the crew-chief had nothing to do (unlikely)..

I'll try to scan it, but my scanner is a bit persnickity about scanning photos with any writing on 'em. Dunno why that happens...

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:41 PM

I just love how the photos show that we modelers make the invasion stripes appear much neater and nicer than the real deal in most cases (the Widows above being obvious exceptions). The (sloppy) ones that I painted on as a kid look more historically accurate.Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:52 PM

stikpusher

I just love how the photos show that we modelers make the invasion stripes appear much neater and nicer than the real deal in most cases (the Widows above being obvious exceptions). The (sloppy) ones that I painted on as a kid look more historically accurate.Wink

I was thinking that as well. I think if i have do a kit with the stripes, i may just brush paint them. I like the third photo with the position of the stripes marked out with what i assume is chalk. A nice Dio idea.

''I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so''

On the bench: Revell 1/72nd Type VIIc U-Boat

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:33 PM

Bish

 stikpusher:

I just love how the photos show that we modelers make the invasion stripes appear much neater and nicer than the real deal in most cases (the Widows above being obvious exceptions). The (sloppy) ones that I painted on as a kid look more historically accurate.Wink

 

I was thinking that as well. I think if i have do a kit with the stripes, i may just brush paint them. I like the third photo with the position of the stripes marked out with what i assume is chalk. A nice Dio idea.

Way ahead of ya.. Wink

This one's at about 60%, so it won't be in the GB... I got a LOT of figure-work to do, plus finish the P-61... This is a more of a "Mock-up" at this point than a diorama, but y'all get the idea...

 .

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