1945 GB

Get ready for a super long post! 

I just sprayed some #223 Light Green highlights yesterday, and I'm reasonably happy with the result. Reasonably.  The zenithal lighting (or whatever you want to call it) looks ok, and I'm sure it'll look better after weathering and stuff.

The airbrush job itself leaves something to be desired. As I'm sure most of you know, I've been whining about bad paint atomization for the last week or so. I got some pics of the spray, and I'll see what you think.  

Here are the photos. Pardon any color differences, the camera is a bit temperamental and I had to tweak the photos to get the right tone.  

And here's the dreaded paint splatter. Sorry if I get all Captain Ahab, I think all modelers are a little obssesive, it just goes with the hobby                  

Paint splatter on the front hull: 

Paint splatter on paper. Notice the difference between the fine and rough atomization (fine atomization is generally a bright green, rough/bad atomization is a darker green): 

Here's a pic of what I think is splattering involving overthinned paint. You can see the really large blotches caused by the thinned paint spreading. On plastic this aquires a weird mottled effect, with little blobs of paint and thinner. Here it is: 

There's the whole picture. Let me know what you think. 

 

One last thing: has anyone used oils for final the final layers of color modulation or zenithal highlighting? I have Buff and Olive Green from Abteilung, and I was wondering if I'd have better control doing that on future models. 

 

Moff, are you using different paint types and brands in your airbrush?  Could be contamination causing a slight blockage or older paint breaking down?

You can try spraying without the protective nozzle.  If the spatter is still happening, then something is not right either inside the airbrush or it's the paint mix.  Another alternative for thinning acrylics is use a drop or two of acrylic future clear.

regards,

Jack

The only time I have had issues with spattering is when I haven't cleaned the airbrush properly. Asides from your issues, its coming on nicely Moff.

There's a good discussion concerning splatter at http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?131357-Airbrushing-details-highlights-how-to-avoid-splatter . Normally I'd say splatter comes from paint that is too thick, especially if there is any blockage in the nozzle. Get that thing absolutely clean - look at the nozzle toward a light and make sure you can see a nice round hole - even if it's small. If you can't see anything, it's clogged. I have a reemer from Harder Steenbeck that's excellent for clearing any nozzle. You can also use some kind of interdental brush with a fiber brush at the end- cheap and found in any drug store - and then very gently put your needle through the nozzle. That will shove out anything clogged. Clogs can also take place in the hole right behind the color cup leading to the trigger. Interdental brushes are great for these too. As noted before, while painting have a damp paint brush there to clean off the tip every thirty seconds or so.

If your spray is trapped between splatter and running you may have a paint issue. Water based paints do have a little learning curve. I always use very low psi with Vallejo (either MC or MA) with pretty thin paint - you should be able to put on a very smooth thin coat - four or so of those will color the model well and not obscure surface detail. Never start on your model: use a paper towel or an old model to begin on and when things look good move over to your kit. Pledge does work as part of a thinner, but only in very small amounts. Pledge dries slower than your paint (not much, but slower) and too much will cause a crackle finish. Easy to fix, but a waste of time.

I'm a great fan of water based paints and have scores (maybe 200) of Vallejo and Golden Paints. But for future reference, if the airbrush is not your friend with Vallejo, I'd be the first to admit that Tamiya Acrylics (they're actually lacquers - note the toxic and flammable warnings) thinned with either Gunze or Tamiya lacquer thinner (much better than Tamiya A20 acrylic thinner which is glorified ISP) and you should get a very good coat. Tamiya's thick bottles have disadvantages but they do allow you to mix the paint very well - I definitely recommend a Badger electric paint mixer for about $10, or mix the paint around very well after it's been given a good shake. Vallejo and Golden paints seperate very fast and you must give them a very good shake. (High Flow has something metal inside to help mix it.) You can figure out many ways to get a modulation effect using Tamiya paints - prime a tank totally or partly in black and that will help. It's easy to change the hue by adding white or (probably better depending on the color) yellow or gray. A lot of modelers use oils for fading and that certainly works. I think pigments can do the job very well too. Those modulation sets are clever: someone like Mig Jimenez or Adam Wilder makes modulation technique popular and - bang - a company affiliated with them shows up with a 6 bottle modulation set. Overkill in my view, but I weather armor hard and fine points disaper. 

Not knocking Mig. He's one of those modelers that could make a good kit using color crayons. Mig himself gives a two and a half hour (two parts) "master class" on painting. It's in English and covers a lot. Check on YouTube: "Mig Jimenez Painting Master Class at IPMS". 

Eric

 

EBergerud

There's a good discussion concerning splatter at http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?131357-Airbrushing-details-highlights-how-to-avoid-splatter . Normally I'd say splatter comes from paint that is too thick, especially if there is any blockage in the nozzle. Get that thing absolutely clean - look at the nozzle toward a light and make sure you can see a nice round hole - even if it's small. If you can't see anything, it's clogged. I have a reemer from Harder Steenbeck that's excellent for clearing any nozzle. You can also use some kind of interdental brush with a fiber brush at the end- cheap and found in any drug store - and then very gently put your needle through the nozzle. That will shove out anything clogged. Clogs can also take place in the hole right behind the color cup leading to the trigger. Interdental brushes are great for these too. As noted before, while painting have a damp paint brush there to clean off the tip every thirty seconds or so.

If your spray is trapped between splatter and running you may have a paint issue. Water based paints do have a little learning curve. I always use very low psi with Vallejo (either MC or MA) with pretty thin paint - you should be able to put on a very smooth thin coat - four or so of those will color the model well and not obscure surface detail. Never start on your model: use a paper towel or an old model to begin on and when things look good move over to your kit. Pledge does work as part of a thinner, but only in very small amounts. Pledge dries slower than your paint (not much, but slower) and too much will cause a crackle finish. Easy to fix, but a waste of time.

I'm a great fan of water based paints and have scores (maybe 200) of Vallejo and Golden Paints. But for future reference, if the airbrush is not your friend with Vallejo, I'd be the first to admit that Tamiya Acrylics (they're actually lacquers - note the toxic and flammable warnings) thinned with either Gunze or Tamiya lacquer thinner (much better than Tamiya A20 acrylic thinner which is glorified ISP) and you should get a very good coat. Tamiya's thick bottles have disadvantages but they do allow you to mix the paint very well - I definitely recommend a Badger electric paint mixer for about $10, or mix the paint around very well after it's been given a good shake. Vallejo and Golden paints seperate very fast and you must give them a very good shake. (High Flow has something metal inside to help mix it.) You can figure out many ways to get a modulation effect using Tamiya paints - prime a tank totally or partly in black and that will help. It's easy to change the hue by adding white or (probably better depending on the color) yellow or gray. A lot of modelers use oils for fading and that certainly works. I think pigments can do the job very well too. Those modulation sets are clever: someone like Mig Jimenez or Adam Wilder makes modulation technique popular and - bang - a company affiliated with them shows up with a 6 bottle modulation set. Overkill in my view, but I weather armor hard and fine points disaper. 

Not knocking Mig. He's one of those modelers that could make a good kit using color crayons. Mig himself gives a two and a half hour (two parts) "master class" on painting. It's in English and covers a lot. Check on YouTube: "Mig Jimenez Painting Master Class at IPMS". 

Eric

 

 

Wow.

Thanks for the ton of great advice, it was really helpful! From my experience, I think my problem is probably cleaning. When I clean, I gently ram the needle in and out of the nozzle, which kind of cleans the nozzle, but not really great.  The nozzle cleaning advice was particularly helpful. I'll try some of that and get back to you. 

 BTW, I started another thread where I'm basically asking what acrylic paints replicate       Tamiya's the best:  http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/tools_techniques_and_reference_materials/f/18/t/168669.aspx

jgeratic

Moff, are you using different paint types and brands in your airbrush?  Could be contamination causing a slight blockage or older paint breaking down?

You can try spraying without the protective nozzle.  If the spatter is still happening, then something is not right either inside the airbrush or it's the paint mix.  Another alternative for thinning acrylics is use a drop or two of acrylic future clear.

regards,

Jack

 

I'm not using different brands, but that's another thing I was wondering about. Are you saying that it is not a good idea to use an airbrush for different paint brands? 

I also have moisture in my compressor (I have to periodically drain the air hose, and I can't varnish with the airbrush) but that's a separate issue, right? I should probably just buy a moisture trap for that. 

Bish

The only time I have had issues with spattering is when I haven't cleaned the airbrush properly.

 

I'm guessing that's probably what it is. 

Bish

Asides from your issues, its coming on nicely Moff.

 

Thanks! I think the IS-3 will look fine after some weathering. 

Moff

I also have moisture in my compressor (I have to periodically drain the air hose, and I can't varnish with the airbrush) but that's a separate issue, right? I should probably just buy a moisture trap for that. 

I would have to say that having moisture in your hose could be a major contributor to your woes. I highly recommend that you get yourself a moisture trap. And then, like everyone else has recommended, a very thorough cleaning after each use.

Although it may not be recommended, I use different paints in my airbrush. I use mainly enamel paints. Mostly Model Master and Gunze Sangyo Mr. Color. But, I also spray Tamiya and Life Color on occasion for a specific color or effect. I've yet to encounter any major issues. It's just that I thoroughly clean my airbrush after each use and regularly do a complete tear down and soaking.

I sure hope that you are able to fix  your airbrush problems. It sure takes the edge off the fun of modeling when you're constantly fighting equipment issues.

JOE RIX

 

 

Moff

I also have moisture in my compressor (I have to periodically drain the air hose, and I can't varnish with the airbrush) but that's a separate issue, right? I should probably just buy a moisture trap for that. 

 

 

I would have to say that having moisture in your hose could be a major contributor to your woes. I highly recommend that you get yourself a moisture trap. And then, like everyone else has recommended, a very thorough cleaning after each use.

 

 

How much maitenence does a moisture trap need (i.e. how often do I need to drain it)? I'm sure it's less than what I'm doing now, but I'm just wondering. 

Also, how would moisture in the compressor affect paint atomization?

Moisture traps are either passive - often mounted in the hose itself - which work by themselves - or active with valves that allow draining. If you see something that drains, open it. If you're using a tank air compressor (much the best) you should periodically drain the tank - that's really to protect the tank itself, but it could get too much moisture in the airflow. The paint most like Tamiya is Gunze - another solvent based acrylic/lacquer. Mixing across paint varieties is very dicey, but you can always give it a try on a medical experiment (an essential option for all mortal modelers). Golden and Vallejo definitely mix at least in some types. But most paints has a different brew for the agent (the stuff the pigment is suspended in) and that could cause trouble. Get those interdental brushes - they work great. You stick them into your nozzle tip (make sure the tip is filled with airbrush cleaner, water or ISP) and spin them around - it will get the stuff that's built up on the side. Then stick a needle in if you can't see a hole. Last thing: take a real close look at your needle. If it is bent at the tip even slightly it could interfere with a good spray. Some like Badger or Paasche are much more tough than others, but I don't think you can really fix them if they're bent. I give my brushes a new needle every Xmas. Eric

I'm really hijacking this thread, sorry Bish  

This is a moisture trap and a pressure regulator combination, right? If it is a moisture trap, it sure doesn't hold much. As you can see it's full already, and it's only been two sprays since I last drained it and the air hose. And trust me, the air hose is full. I just got squirted in the face yesterday when I turned on the compressor without an airbrush attached to the air hose.

For sure, yes, you can use all kinds of paint brands and types in one airbrush, just make sure of a thorough cleaning.  As was mentioned on another recent thread, lacquer thinner sometimes does not work well at cleaning out acrylics, making instead a gooey mess.

Moisture trap is a must, what you have pictured is exactly what I have.  From my experience,  working in a cool room will increase the amount of moisture created in the tank exponentially.  The cold metal tank combined with running (creating heat) is the cause.  Try blasting some air just on your hand, and if you feel moisture or even see it forming on your skin, then you might consider an increase room temp.   Slow down your airbrushing should help too, which will happen if you stop every 30s to wipe the tip as Eric suggests.

Paints too have an optimum temperature to work with.  I can't help but think that ideally you want both air and paint to be close in temp.

regards,

Jack

 

Maybe I should just get a bunch of water traps and string them all together like I've seen online. Or at least another one or two. 

Hijack away Moff. I have a moisture trap on my compressor and it does not need draining that often. I do mine every few use's and its easy with the drain valve under the trap.

I don't have different airbrushes for different paints, that would be expensive as I use over half a dozen paint brands, but a couple of those I don't use often. But I do make sure the brush gets a major clean before switching brands, especially when I am going from one paint type to another, Acrylic to enamel for example.

Bish

Hijack away Moff. I have a moisture trap on my compressor and it does not need draining that often. I do mine every few use's and its easy with the drain valve under the trap.

 

It doesn't seem that the drain valve on mine really gets all the moisture. I usually end up unscrewing the cap and wiping it out with a paper towel. 

It defiantly sounds like its not working right.

Bish

It defiantly sounds like its not working right.

 

 

Well, it might drain eventually...I really don't know.

While my face is pasted to the screen, I thought I might post some update pictures of the JS-3 after some detail painting and a test fitting of the wheels: 

EBergerud

I have a reemer from Harder Steenbeck that's excellent for clearing any nozzle. You can also use some kind of interdental brush with a fiber brush at the end

 

 

 

I actually have a Paasche cleaning set that comes with round bristle brushes. I can't remember if there's one small enough for my airbrush nozzle. I'm planning on buying an ultrasonic cleaner really soon though. Do you have any experience with ultrasonic cleaners?

I've got two of them: figure $35 per. I used to use them much more than I do. Simply put, I don't need them for cleaning airbrushes because my present system is better. (Might come in handy if you forgot to clean an airbrush that had a polymer based paint like Vallejo MC, Golden or even Pledge. When acrylic dries it dries hard.) I use to clean out plastic paint cups and sometimes brushes. And it works really well for jewlrey so my wife uses it. (Don't buy one that's expensive: overkill for modelers.)

For cleaning your airbrush, I'd say the products I mentioned are better. If your nozzle is wide - say .5-.7, you can go on eBay and look for a metal cleaning tool - about $5. If it's .15-.5 the Harder Steenbeck cleaning set available at Chicago Airbrush Supply for $21: has a very nice reemer with a very tough brush desined to clean the body (a likely spot to accumulate gunk). The reemer costs less than a HS needle and let's you avoid using your needle as a cleaning tool. Pair this up with an interdental brush. If you're not sure what that is, go to Amazon or CVS Pharmacy and search Dentek Easy Brush. You'll get the idea real quick. They go for about $5 for 16 - if you clean them off one of the brushes will last several cleanings. They're perfect for cleaning the inside of a nozzle prior to clearing it with a needle or reemer and pretty good for getting inside that hole behind the color cup. Any decent drug store carries Dentek or a similar brand.

Hope to have the Spitfire out the door by Monday.

Eric

Ditto on using different types of paint. However, if you listen to the uber-gurus like Phil Flory they do worry about one thing polluting another and I think they might be right. (I bet everyone has had some paint problem that simply makes no sense - if something is causing little lumps in the agent without you knowing about it....trouble.) So just keep the brush clean. Unless it's an early HS Evolution, brushes should be able to handle tough cleaning solvents. I usually give mine a blast with "green" lacquer thinner and/or ISP. And if I'm switching colors immediately I give it some dry air. The only exception could be Alclad style metal paints. I've heard people using a separate brush for them. If you used it a lot - maybe so. Metallic pigments are extremely small and would not be easy to remove entirely.

EBergerud

For cleaning your airbrush, I'd say the products I mentioned are better. If your nozzle is wide - say .5-.7, you can go on eBay and look for a metal cleaning tool - about $5. If it's .15-.5 the Harder Steenbeck cleaning set available at Chicago Airbrush Supply for $21: has a very nice reemer with a very tough brush desined to clean the body (a likely spot to accumulate gunk). The reemer costs less than a HS needle and let's you avoid using your needle as a cleaning tool. Pair this up with an interdental brush. If you're not sure what that is, go to Amazon or CVS Pharmacy and search Dentek Easy Brush. You'll get the idea real quick. They go for about $5 for 16 - if you clean them off one of the brushes will last several cleanings. They're perfect for cleaning the inside of a nozzle prior to clearing it with a needle or reemer and pretty good for getting inside that hole behind the color cup. Any decent drug store carries Dentek or a similar brand. 

 

One of these? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004KNFP26?keywords=Metal%20cleaning%20tool%20airbrush&qid=1448073501&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

That's it. It's bigger than the HS reemer but it looks almost the same. Odd - I bought two of those on eBay and left them in St. Paul. They worked great on my Iwata Eclipse which has .35. I thought I bought one for Berzerkley and it looked the same but was not as thin and didn't work on my Harder Steenbeck. But it claims .2 and that's perfecto. For $4 and free shipping it's hard to lose. Check out those dental brushes - work together.

Eric

EBergerud

That's it. It's bigger than the HS reemer but it looks almost the same. Odd - I bought two of those on eBay and left them in St. Paul. They worked great on my Iwata Eclipse which has .35. I thought I bought one for Berzerkley and it looked the same but was not as thin and didn't work on my Harder Steenbeck. But it claims .2 and that's perfecto. For $4 and free shipping it's hard to lose. Check out those dental brushes - work together.

Eric

 

 

Well, I think one of the Paasche cleaning brushes may be the right size for my airbrush. I'll just wait and see about the interdentals.

Excellent modeling going on here!  It's been fun scrolling back and seeing what everyone's been up to.  

I finally reached the point where I think I can post some photos of work on USS Shangri-la (CV 38).  I started back in May, but got waylaid by a number of things--including the amount of fiddly work with PE and having to scratch-build a lot of stuff.

 

@ checkmateking02: 

That must have been an interesting feeling for the men serving on the Shangri-La in Vietnam, to know that people had been walking her decks since the 40s and that she had served in WWII.

Nice to see some pics check. That PE radar is a hell of a lot smaller than the kit part.

Moff:  Yes, I imagine it might have caused some reflection!  Naval tradition is important.

Bish:  And the PE part was made up from ten or twelve pieces; I don't exactly remember.  My brain wasn't working too well after I finished it.  

I am surprised it didn't bloody explode. I have thought about getting some PE for my Airfix HMS Belfast, but really not sure I can handle that.

I've heard that the Belfast along with Prinz Eugen are considered two of the best Airfix 1/600 kits. I did Iron Duke and it was a problem child.

Eric