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ss arm band

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  • Member since
    September, 2013
ss arm band
Posted by blackdog62 on Thursday, January 22, 2015 5:23 PM
I have à question world a stug 4 commander bave à ss arm band ? Or world they juste be à membre of à panzer groupe that would be attached ?

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, January 23, 2015 12:28 PM

To get the best exposure, this question/thread should have been posted in the Armor section.

-----------------------------------------

http://www.stugiii.com/sturmartillerie/sturmgeschutziv.html

From the above link, most of the StuG IV were attached to infantry units, but if you want to depict a crew figure with an SS cuff title, you probably have three choices:

17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen

5th SS Panzer Division Wiking

4th SS Polizei Grenadier Division

---------------------------------------------

http://missinglinks2.tripod.com/index.htm might be of interest.  There are three pages of thumbnail size photos of the StuG IV, but you need to view the first link Sturmgeschutz IV Photophile to read descriptions of each photo.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Friday, January 23, 2015 3:47 PM

Thanks jack I'm off to look at those sites I'm wondering if there shoulder bords woul be black and white ss typ or the redish artillery colors . Thanks for the info.

I don't know my way Around the forums good enough to know there's a armor section. Lol

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, January 23, 2015 4:08 PM

Blackdog, the SS used the same waffenfarbe as the army. As far as the 17th is concerned, the StuG's were assigned to what had been the panzer battalion. In June 1944 it was designated a Pz jag battalion.

For the 4th SS, In Oct 44 their StuG's also belonged to the pz jag battalion, but I have no date as to when this happened. In both cases, I would say the waffenfarbe would be pz Pink. I can't find any info on the 5th SS.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Friday, January 23, 2015 7:53 PM

BISH.......thank you much I have never really worked on any figures its a academy stug4 comander that came with the kit. its a bit shy on detail I just want to make it rite. Now I have to look through my decals stash for the divisions you and jgeratic/jack mentiond

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, January 23, 2015 9:34 PM

 Bish has got you covered with the waffenfarbe.  Yes

Red would only have been used if the vehicle was issued to the Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung (assault battalion).

The pdf link I had posted earlier, if you scroll down to the bottom, there is an allocation list for the Stug IV:

A batch of 22 shipped on March 20, 1944 carries the remark "für SS-Wiking".  This indicates that they went to 5.SS- Pz.Div. instead.  It is still uncertain if SS-Pz.Abt.5 or SS-Pz.Jg.Abt.5 got them (Mirko Bayerl suggests these were fielded in SS-Pz.Rgt.5 and not SS-Pz.Jg.Rgt.5).   No reference to them can be found either in the Divisional or the Regimental (SS-Pz.Rgt.5) History. Nevertheless according to [3] the 5.SS-Div. still reported 5 StuG IV on hand as late as Jan 15, 1945.

Even with the uncertainty, Panzerjager wore pink piping and the black panzerwrap. 

Photos of the 17th SS look to have used of both black and fieldgrey uniforms.

Unfortunately, the white washed vehicle is identified as a Stug III.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, January 24, 2015 3:33 AM

For Div insignia, the 5th SS would be the easiest to get hold of. Of those 3 it was the only full Panzer Div and quite a few kits come with there insignia. The other 2 will be a bit thin on the ground in kits.

This will help you find the insignia you need.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Saturday, July 29, 2017 1:42 PM

bish and gjeratic thank you both for all this info you posted this was about the time i was dealing with that house fire. i just came across it thank you both for the time and resurch you put into it. im still working on this as it got put off for a bit and its still veary much usefull info.Yes

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, July 29, 2017 1:49 PM

Completly forgot about this, glad its going to be of some use and can't wait to see the build.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    March, 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 5:27 AM

Check this site, it's got good info and illustrations:

http://www.alanhamby.com/ranks/rank.htm

 

  • Member since
    March, 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Sunday, August 20, 2017 8:45 AM
Question: if you're a panzer crew, but your unit is part of a larger panzergrenadier division, what Waffenfardbe do you wear: pink (for Panzers), or grass green (for Panzergrenadiers)?

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:07 AM

Pink. The colour has nothing to do with the type of unit you are in but what you do.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    March, 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:44 PM
Thanks Bish! That's what I thought, but then I got to wondering whether I'd been doing it wrong all this time. Best not to overthink things...

  • Member since
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  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:55 PM

As Bish states, but self-propelled guns is a whole different ball game (and a minefield at that) when concerned with waffenfarbe.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    March, 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Sunday, August 20, 2017 5:21 PM
Oh great, that's just what I was working on, an SPG. A Marder II, I was going to use markings of 10th Panzergrenadier division. Any insight as to which Waffenfarbe to use?

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Sunday, August 20, 2017 8:12 PM

You picked the right category of vehicle, because panzerjaeger units  kept constant their colour of waffenfarbe - pink.  The shoulder straps would have the cypher 'P', either in pink embroidery, silver or gold depending on rank. 

From February 1942 to May 1944,  crew uniforms should be the field grey version of the black panzer type.  After the latter date, they were suppose to revert back to the black uniform.   Also during the second half of the war, branch piping around the collar lapels was eliminiated, as was the coloured soutache on cloth headgear.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 21, 2017 2:26 AM

As Jack says, pink for the Marder crew. The real fun comes with StuG's.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Monday, August 21, 2017 8:41 PM

since we have goten this started i have orderd a few after market items not sure how im going to uise them yet. this was for a stug4 build im doing thats one hold for now because i have dec 20170821_180722 by Jerry Richards, on Flickrided to make it a diroma  20170821_180707 by Jerry Richards, on Flickrand have no supplys for it.Whistling

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Monday, August 21, 2017 8:55 PM

 2017-08-21_06-22-06 by https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4408/36678642736_4b816cfa4b_k.jpg[/img]20170821_180812 by Jerry Richards, on Flickrtos/148521530@N05/]Jerry Richards, on Flickr

thats strange how my text broke up between pics on the last one.

but this is the figure i was going to use untill i made the desission to make a diorama. still may but the headphone band has to go. and this is the academy stug 4 im useing. it dosent say what company its with but my plan is eastern front ss unithttps://www.flickr.com/gp/148521530@N05/n16HC2 thats a pic of the company decal from the kit 20170608_164253 by Jerry Richards, on Flickr

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:06 PM

i have never done a figure before im hopeing ill get better tha plan is for the stug crew and grenadeirs to be makeing a  secure bivowack for the night. so ill have several more figures to work on and figure out arm bands and shoulder bords. and what ss was what parts of the eastern front ?

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:11 PM

and this marking was also in the kit i have no idea about eather one. im figuring im going to have to find some ss markings. well i dug these books out they should help with what im looking for. it would be nice if the stug4 marking was already from the ss. if anyone knows that would be great. thanks

jerry. 2017-08-22_03-07-13 by Jerry Richards, on Flickr

 

  • Member since
    March, 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Friday, August 25, 2017 3:09 AM

jgeratic

You picked the right category of vehicle, because panzerjaeger units  kept constant their colour of waffenfarbe - pink.  The shoulder straps would have the cypher 'P', either in pink embroidery, silver or gold depending on rank. 

From February 1942 to May 1944,  crew uniforms should be the field grey version of the black panzer type.  After the latter date, they were suppose to revert back to the black uniform.   Also during the second half of the war, branch piping around the collar lapels was eliminiated, as was the coloured soutache on cloth headgear.

regards,

Jack

 

 

Jack, one more question.  While I've seen plenty of panzer-type uniforms, both the regular Panzer black and the SPG grey, which have the pink Waffenfarbe, what about if the Panzerjäger crew has regular infantry-cut uniforms (i.e., NOT the Panzer-cut, short tunic with double-breasted style lapels)?  I ask because the crew that came with the kit has regular infantry-cut uniforms, which I've never seen pink Waffenfarbe on.  The Tamiya Marder II kit is the kit I've got.  The illustrations and decals are based on an actual Marder II, the "Kohlenklau" (coal thief).  I've seen several wartime photos of that particular Marder II and its crew, and that's not a mistake, they DO actually wear regular, infantry-cut uniforms, not the Panzer-style uniform.  However, all the photos I've seen are black-and-white, so I can't tell the color of the Waffenfarbe.  But since I've NEVER seen infantry-cut uniforms with pink Waffenfarbe, is that an actual possibility?  Or would they have to be red, for artillery, or something else?

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, August 25, 2017 3:36 AM

They will still have the Pink Waffenfarbe. Its the same as if they were the crew on a towed AT weapon like a PaK 40. Pink is most associated with tank crews, but there are other who wear that colour.

Its likely the photo's you see where taklen before the field grey Pz Uniform were issued. You would not want to wear black in an open topped vehhicle, so they are simply wearing there issued M36 uniform.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, August 25, 2017 3:39 AM

blackdog62

and this marking was also in the kit i have no idea about eather one. im figuring im going to have to find some ss markings. well i dug these books out they should help with what im looking for. it would be nice if the stug4 marking was already from the ss. if anyone knows that would be great. thanks

jerry. 2017-08-22_03-07-13 by Jerry Richards, on Flickr

 

 

Can't speak for the books on the right, but just be careful with the ones on the left. I think its in the SS book, they show the same 251 in the profiles of at least 2 different Div's. But they are handy for general info and unit histories.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, August 25, 2017 3:40 AM

blackdog62

i have never done a figure before im hopeing ill get better tha plan is for the stug crew and grenadeirs to be makeing a  secure bivowack for the night. so ill have several more figures to work on and figure out arm bands and shoulder bords. and what ss was what parts of the eastern front ?

 

Most of them at some point. Some, like the 3rd SS spent all their time in the east after the invasion in 41, others moved around.

Largley depends on your time period.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, August 25, 2017 10:30 AM

Yes, Bish has it covered - regular Wehrmacht tunics could be adorned  with the pink waffenfarbe.  Recalling from past reading, all servicemen regardless of branch, were issued with the four pocket tunics during their training, and would have kept them as part of their personal gear wherever they went.

----------------------------

As far as SS divison markings go, you can either pick a time frame  and a front you wish to model, or if it's more the design of marking that strikes your fancy, then just research that particular unit's history.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Sunday, August 27, 2017 9:31 PM

Bish.... jgeratic thank you both for your time  that's just what I was doing. I came across the wiking division. These guys really got in thick of it. With army group South for the start to Caucasus and Hungary and Austria surenderd to that Americans and even fought there way out of the korsun pocket. Being a stug4 diorama it's going to be late war. 

Now i gota Get the rest of the grenadiers together and find wiking decals. Probably new tankers also.

Thank for the help guys I'm sure I'll need more help on this one it's a first.

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Sunday, August 27, 2017 9:39 PM

Thanks bish i caught that and thought the author maybe was being lazy.

I'm off to the net to search for ss wiking decals or even better mask. 

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Sunday, August 27, 2017 10:04 PM

For masks, I know I've seen some PE ones, which should be ok on flat or near flat surfaces.

https://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/masks/edu/mask_edu_xt032.shtml

http://www.am-works.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=mask

This last one am unfamiliar with, but did order some figures from them:

http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Stencilit___Pochoirs.html

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 28, 2017 3:19 AM

I've ordred from scalelink a few times a couple of years back, had no issues. Like the look of that mask, might come in useful.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/32nd Ju 87G-2

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