ARMOR - Pz IV Group Build

Look at it as a challenge guys. THink of when its finished, you'll be able to look back and be proud that you overcame this design flaw and still had a great build.

The ejector pin marks can be scraped and feathered into some areas and filled with putty on others. Not a tough fix. Frustrating, time consuming, but easily done.

It's what separates the model builders from the die cast collectors.

I like design #2. Its simple, easy to read, the silhouette stands out from the back ground and it reads well.

EDOG, I feel you... I found the same thing on my H.... The fit of my kit is awful..OH how I yern for Dragon or Tamiya.... Does this HAVE to be a Pz IV proper...no variants??? Cause I have a Tamiya Mobelwagen thats about 30% done just screaming to kick that Italeri piece of crap off the bench and take its place in this GB....

I really don't have the patience or the inclination to deal with the Italeri kit. And I don't mean to whine but if I am gonna take the time to build this then I don't want to have something I don't like in the end.... What would be the point..

QUOTE: Originally posted by edog Ok, here are some quick ideas I had for a badge. They are all quite similar, but I really wanted to work in the silhouette of the tank. Let me know which one you guys like and any suggestions you might have for changes. Also, if you dont like them, dont be afraid to be crule. 1) 2) 3)

I like number 2 the best then 3.
Ive started the Panzer 1V Wirblewinds quad AA guns today,they went together really well
I'll A/B them tonight and take a photo or two.

Its gonna take quite awhile to get rid of all those! dang, that sucks! BTW, I like # 2 the best, then 3, then 1. On #2, It is kinda hard to see the PzIV on the edges. Think you could outline it or something?

And after getting some mixed results, heres what my D will be..... Late version, Balkans Front, Panzer gray hatches. THanks for the help guys, I realy, really appreciate it.

LOOK AT THIS!!! this is why people think of Italeri kits as substandard... So, i reported how good the hull looked in an earlier post and it really does, but when I started to put the thing together, this is what I found!!!



each one of those circles are ejector pin marks. However, there is not one ejector pin mark on the back, where you would hope they would put them. I dont know what to do with this. I have already checked the Tamiya, Dragon, and Tiger Model kits to see if any of those rear ends fit and they dont.

Note: the rest of the kit seems to be great though. LOL!!

I like #2 the best, #1 and 3 are kind of distracting and take a bit to figure out, while #2 is clearly a Pz4 silhouette in front of Pz IV.

Ok, here are some quick ideas I had for a badge. They are all quite similar, but I really wanted to work in the silhouette of the tank. Let me know which one you guys like and any suggestions you might have for changes. Also, if you dont like them, dont be afraid to be crule.

1)

2)

3)

QUOTE: Originally posted by edog Thanks for the pics petbat, they are great! Aaronw, if you are on a budget, look for a Dragon Pz IV, or an Italeri Pz IV. I just received the Italeri Pz IV F1/F2 in the mail and it really looks like a good kit.

Not on a budget its just $18 vs $40 is tempting but I was wondering if the price ranges might be old molds vs new. If I'm going to take the time to build the thing I want it to be nice (at least until I get a hold of it). I was also looking at some Dragon and Tamiya kits, probably will get one of those.

Thanks

Thanks for the pics petbat, they are great!

rebelreenactor, you are added, sorry about that. The battle of France would have had early versions of the Pz IV D, without the extra armor. Not sure if that helps, but i hope so.

Aaronw, if you are on a budget, look for a Dragon Pz IV, or an Italeri Pz IV. I just received the Italeri Pz IV F1/F2 in the mail and it really looks like a good kit.

I could come up with a badge unless someone else wants to do it. Let me know…

Rebel, interior of hatches were painted the same as the exterior-never white. White was too easy to see and made a nice aiming point - although a little to one side and the round may have gone in one open hatch and out the other This is also why the Germans changed the Balkenkreutz after France.

Production of the Ausf D ran for about a year from Sept '39. The only real change to a 'late' D was the spaced armour to the front plate. As time went on existing 'D's' were upgraded in the field, but these changes were not huge (fitting later 40cm wide tracks, suspension improvements, etc). I do not have the Tamiya D, but it would be safe to say a 'late' would have been present during the Battle of France. ( 'Squadron Signals PzKpfW IV In Action' actually has a pic of several D's and E's with the comment 'in France after the campaign of 1940'.)

photos taken from the afv interiors website

As you can see in these pics, it seems that some hatches were painted with the interior white, while others were painted the exterior vehicle color. Even in the black & white photos you can can clearly see the lighter color painted on the hatch interior and the exterior color painted on the hatch.

Here is a link to an article specifcally dealing with interior panzer colors.
http://byrden.com/panzers/Colours/index.html

Petbat Thanks. These are certainly good reference photos and the best I've seen so far of the dampers. feldgrau will be getting some more detailed photos and that will give us a very accurate representation of the damper. In my book there can never be too many photos of a subject.

Its like this.... The old Academy kits are mostly bad copies of crappy Tamiya kits from the 70's Academys new stuff..ie the stuart isn't even comparable, they are new molds that i suppose they created, and are excellent kits.

I realize the Academy kit has an attractive price but to me it isn't worth the headache of building one to save a buck. You can get a great DML ausf J or not much more than that and get indi links too. Or if your feeling froggy hop into the (newer) Tamiya kits that almost put themselves together. By newer I mean the Pz's tooled in the early 90's or later.

Good luck with your choice...

I went shopping for a Panzer 4 today, most are running around $40 but I found an Academy Panzer 4 H for $18. I have never built anything by academy, the photos on the side of the box looked decent, but the academy Stuart is like $25 which kind of concerns me. So anyone know if this kit is worthwhile, most of my armor experience is with Tamiya so you could use that as a reference point.

Thanks

Edog, could you put me on the list?

also, will there be a GB patch for this build? just wondering.

Oh, and I think that i am going to paint my hatches white, it was all i could fined, but if somebody has a book on it or something that says otherwise please let me know. Thanks.
P.S. Please also answer my Question in the above reply.

Thank you

Gabe, Welcome to the forum and the Darkside...

Can't speak 100% but most of the time the icon isn't issued until a person finnishes their project... Its more of a trophy than an identity....does that make sense...

Good luck with your project and keep well...


ALL, I finnaly got started on my project... Got the major hull pieces glued together and half the wheels sanded.... Thats about it...

I forgot to ask - Is there an icon for this Group Build? If there is, how do we put it onto the bottom of our reply box.

Just asking..

Cheers,
Gabe

I'm new to armour modelling and I just happened to buy an Academy Panzer IV.

Count me in for this group build and who knows, I might learn something along the way.

Cheers,
Gabe

Alright, I need your help again.

I built the late version of the D. The decals for the late version are for the Balkans front. But on the box there is a late version for the Battle of France but on the directions say that the battle of france D was the early version. What one is Right?
Both??

P.S. Most of the reference pics i could get showed that the hatches were White, or they were dark yellow, the same color as the vehicle but it was hard to tell.

Mike (Renarts): Re Dampers. These Help?

QUOTE: Originally posted by gcbob a technical question...Where were the Division markings on the Jagdpanzer IV??... on the chassis slope, or the main body slope..The tamiya kit im working has the box art in one spot, but the directions on a other.....

Which Panzer Division are you representing with your build? and when?

Divisional marking will vary from PD to PD and even between vehicle types within the PD. They will also vary depending on the time during the war. If you have the Division and the timeframe, I can look it up in my references.

a technical question...Where were the Division markings on the Jagdpanzer IV??... on the chassis slope, or the main body slope..The tamiya kit im working has the box art in one spot, but the directions on a other.....

Thanks

QUOTE: QUOTE: Originally posted by Kennethc I would suggest haveing the chassis at lease basecoated and the rubber rims (if applicable) painted... Thanks, but I'm a step ahead of you...

Most everyone is... But it never hurts....

Looking forward to pics of your build...

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kennethc I would suggest haveing the chassis at lease basecoated and the rubber rims (if applicable) painted...

Thanks, but I'm a step ahead of you...

I put the base coat of Sandgelb RLM79 on the lower hull sides last night.

I'll spend today working on upper hull details and will probably get to all the rubber parts tomorrow. I don't even want to touch the indi tracks again for at least 3 or 4 days!

Until next time,

Good motto to have! I dearly wish I had a Dragon IV on my self. Next time I buy kits I'm gonna get a dozen of them to make sure I have one.

The indi links aren't bad. On the PZ IV/III kits I built myself a jig of two long strips of wood glued to another board parallel to one another with a gap between that the guide tooth will fit in (not tight) I just lay the links in I need then go back and flow glue into the joints. Then set back and wait till the glue sets up enough to where you can pick the run of tracks up without them comming apart. Wrap the around the chassis and viola ...let it dry the rest of the way then finnish painting...! I would suggest haveing the chassis at lease basecoated and the rubber rims (if applicable) painted...

Good luck pal

Thanks Kenneth,

Anything I can do to help out. That's my motto.

Yes, I do love this kit. This has several "firsts" for me. First indi tracks, first Dragon kit, and first kit with schurzen.

Until next time...

You can e-mail them to me.
Sent you an e-mail.
Thanks

Will do Mike,,, Will try to put the ruler in my car Friday nite. As requested I will get top bottom, left and right side and straight on. Mike do you want me to email them to you directly or do you want me to just post them here?? Let me know.

If fieldgrau can get some good photos of the dampers, I can do up a tech illustration for it. Once done I'll e-mail it to any and all interested. If you can bring a ruler with you and rest it on the top of the damper for scale reference.

I'm thinking we need a side, front, top, and any details you want to include. We'll want to show the thickness of the mounting plates, the flanges, sleeve and its position on the hull.

Good work Robert... Don't you just love Dragon kits....

Can't wait to see it done...

Hey Guys,

I thought I would post an update with a few of the "little things" you should be aware of when building the Dragon Ausf G kit 9020.

Let me start by saying that with the obvious exception of the individual track links, there is very little clean-up required on any of the parts and they nearly fall together. The fit is really that good.

There are a couple errors in the instructions, but nothing you shouldn't notice and correct rather quickly. Also be aware that there are sprues that are the SAME letter. If you're not ready for it, searching for a part on the wrong sprue can be a bit disconcerting at first.

Here are a few assembly points you should also pay attention to:



Point A:
The instruction sheet is not very clear on the positioning of this part. It does not accurately show that there are two flat sides on the part's base. These two flat sides should be oriented left (against the fuel tank support bracket) and down (against the horizortal support flange). Also, you should wait until it's properly attached before putting on the small cap at the tip so that it can be properly oriented.

Point B:
The instructions have you attach the lifting hooks early in the lower hull assembly (Step 3). However, there are no guide marks or moon-shaped attachment lugs to ensure you get the perfect downward angle on the hooks. As you can see, the upper hull flange will slip between the lifting hook and the side hull plate, but the upper edge of the hook is precariously close to the top of the side hull. The fenders protrude straight out from here and if the hooks are angled down too far, they will prevent the upper hull from properly "seating" down onto the lower hull. I would hold off on attaching these parts until you are ready to dry-fit the upper and lower hulls together.

Point C:
The lower hull is covered with raised areas to assist with locating parts properly. Some of them are not used on the Ausf G and will need to be sanded down. The areas that are used are not perfect in size and are a bit "over-raised". Although I have hit them with a couple passes of a sanding stick, you can still see them in this close-up pic. However, since most of these areas will be heavily weathered, I don't think they will pose too much of a problem. Some modelers will want to take them down a bit more than I did.

That's it for now...more later,