Panzer Aces GB January 2007 to May 31, 2008

Hermesminiatures wrote:

At least as far as his book on Michael Wittmann goes Restayn invented nearly the whole story. He portrays Wittmann as using 222 while an obvious and very common photo shows very plainly that is impossible, because 222 is seen in perfect running order towing the damaged 231 immediately after the battle. I have heard on other forums, especially missing lynx, that Restayn does this in all his books. While there is some great info there, don't trust something he says if it conflicts with multiple alternate accounts.

I know what your saying,that's why I usually build Commonwealth armour because I just have to tap up my grandad for info who was a tanker from 1937>1949.Nothing like getting your information straight from the horses mouth.

Cant wait for the Allied Aces GB

Comet wrote:

Cant wait for the Allied Aces GB

Oh man that will be cool.. hopefully its AFTER this one tho haha.. Im swamped as it is.. 1 more GB would kill me.

psychoblue23 wrote:

Comet wrote: Cant wait for the Allied Aces GB Oh man that will be cool.. hopefully its AFTER this one tho haha.. Im swamped as it is.. 1 more GB would kill me.

heh heh, I know the feeling.  We'll definately to an Allied armor GB later this year. 

psychoblue23 wrote:

heres an interesting link with pictures of German WWII stuff. Not a whole lot of info, on the kits used jsut real basic. But it gives some nice color photos. There are 4 diff panth D's at kursk in that list but none that mention anything abour Barkmann.. nor have the same markings.. the search continues... http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/gallery_german.htm  *update* I jsut realized that witht he echelon decal kit comes this nifty picture of many diff tanks.. so that should help with the paint scheme as well as which numbers.. and there all tanks from kursk. Yay for me..

James you scored!!  That set has the exact paint scheme and markings for Barkmann's Kursk Panther D!!

bufflehead wrote:

psychoblue23 wrote: heres an interesting link with pictures of German WWII stuff. Not a whole lot of info, on the kits used jsut real basic. But it gives some nice color photos. There are 4 diff panth D's at kursk in that list but none that mention anything abour Barkmann.. nor have the same markings.. the search continues... http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/gallery_german.htm  *update* I jsut realized that witht he echelon decal kit comes this nifty picture of many diff tanks.. so that should help with the paint scheme as well as which numbers.. and there all tanks from kursk. Yay for me.. James you scored!!  That set has the exact paint scheme and markings for Barkmann's Kursk Panther D!!

cha ching!  Congrats on getting what you needed for Barkmann's Kursk Panther! 

I've read this Thread with interest, and as I've already built Whittman's Last Ride (Tiger I #007) I can't very well do it again. Still, I would like to join this Build, pending the answer to a few questions.

-> I see everyone building 1/35th scale armor. Is this build open to 1/72 scale armor? 1/72 scale is all I build, and I have a Dragon kit that might fit this nicely pending the answer to the next question.

-> Was there any German tank Ace that drove/used a Panther G (early) in the following markings:

3/Pz Rgt 12, 12th Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" Ardennes, 1944

Pz Rgt 27, 19th PzDiv, Warsaw, 1944?

There is another option for Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1st Pz Div "LAH", Normandy, 1944, but there are literally no markings on this tank as depicted in these instructions, only a camo pattern. Ill do it only if it is the only version offered in this kit that was used by a Tank Ace, but I'd love to do one that has markings. 

I've done an extensive search myself to find out of any of these marking options were used by any of Germany's tank Aces but came up with zilch. I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance. 

Ok another rookie question... I was about to start putting all the wheels together but was unsure if it would be easier to 1) assemble them on the tree then add to painted lower 2) assemble them then add to ower then paint all in one.

The first idea seems like it would be easier to apply the paint but then removing from tree already painted means some minor sanding and may or may not require more paint. The 2nd idea is prolly the easier of the two, but seems liek it may be harder to paint being that theres lots of small places for paint not to reach.. how do you guys go about it?

OK, I did a search about Werner Wolff, and I didn't have a lot of results......

Anybody know anything about him?

http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/Wolff.html

This is the only thing I could find, non including the results only mentioning his Knight Cross award date.

Scott,

I have a question.  You're building Albert Ernst's Nashorn and I signed up for the Albert's Hornisse.  Do you think that since there's so little difference between the Hornisse and the Nashorn that I should pick another Ace/vehicle to model?  From the info I've gleaned so far, I haven't found anything that associates him with a specific Hornisse vehicle.  I don't mind if I need to choose something else.....there's no bad subject in this Group Build.  Let me know what you think. 

Thanks,

Larry

psychoblue23 wrote:

Ok another rookie question... I was about to start putting all the wheels together but was unsure if it would be easier to 1) assemble them on the tree then add to painted lower 2) assemble them then add to ower then paint all in one. The first idea seems like it would be easier to apply the paint but then removing from tree already painted means some minor sanding and may or may not require more paint. The 2nd idea is prolly the easier of the two, but seems liek it may be harder to paint being that theres lots of small places for paint not to reach.. how do you guys go about it?

James, I'm no expert and I've never built a Dragon kit before.  Some builders like to assemble the entire kit in one piece (including tracks) and then paint.  I think this works if you're planning on doing a lot of weathering/dusting that will cover a lot of the painting (especially the tracks and wheels).   Since I don't know how to weather this way I use a different method.

This is what I usually do:  Assemble as much of the wheels as possible including the drive sprocket and idlers.  Assemble the lower hull with all the arms according to instructions.  Now because of the interlapping nature of the wheels I then assemble all of suspension parts onto the hull with white glue.  Once dry I assemble the (Magic) tracks and fit onto the suspension with the correct track sag, however I break each side of the tracks into two sections so that they can be removed after the glue dries.  Once the glue on the tracks dries I remove the tracks, soak the hull in warm water to soften the white glue and then remove all the wheels, etc for painting.  Then I continue with the rest the kit until complete.  This method lets me paint all the major parts/assemblies separately and ensure good paint coverage.   Again, this is just my way and may not be the best way to do it.  My explanation may not be very good so feel free to ask for clarification.  Hope this helps!

bufflehead wrote:

This is what I usually do:  Assemble as much of the wheels as possible including the drive sprocket and idlers.  Assemble the lower hull with all the arms according to instructions.  Now because of the interlapping nature of the wheels I then assemble all of suspension parts onto the hull with white glue.  Once dry I assemble the (Magic) tracks and fit onto the suspension with the correct track sag, however I break each side of the tracks into two sections so that they can be removed after the glue dries.  Once the glue on the tracks dries I remove the tracks, soak the hull in warm water to soften the white glue and then remove all the wheels, etc for painting.  Then I continue with the rest the kit until complete.  This method lets me paint all the major parts/assemblies separately and ensure good paint coverage.   Again, this is just my way and may not be the best way to do it.  My explanation may not be very good so feel free to ask for clarification.  Hope this helps!

Wow i had no idea.. so are we talking white glue like elmer's glue? But the tracks will be glued with Ca glue? cuz those will stay perm. That seems liek a decent idea.. ill wait a bit to hear from others.. but it deff makes sense.. I will be adding the camo tho.. if that makes any diff... but i imagine that can be done once tank is fully complete.

Gun Tech,

I feel your pain . I'm having trouble fingding info about Karl Mobius. Wikipedia provides no info other than his unit. I have managed to find his turret number on panzeraces.net. I also discovered (on panzeraces.net) that he was the CO of the 1st company of the schwere SS PzAbt. 101 (101st SS Panzer (Heavy) Battalion). I've managed to find a photo of his 3rd platoon commander's Tiger I somewhere in France, just before D-day. I could copy the camo pattern and add the new turret numbers, but I'd hoped to find some more info or even a photo of Mobius' vehicle.

I'm wondering if someone might be able to recommend a good unit history of the schwere SS PzAbt. 101 (101st SS Panzer (Heavy) Battalion)??

The search continues

Gun Tech,

Werner Wolff was in command of 13 Kompanie of Jochen Peiper's Blowtorch Battalion at Kursk. The unit was equipped with StuG III and SdKfz 250 and 251. From the few reference pictures available of any Blowtorch vehicles it appears that most if not all the SdKfz 251 were camouflaged in green squiggle over dark yellow. The photo of the model on the website you gave is, as far as we can tell, pretty accurate. I would be very surprised if a picture of Wolff's 251/10 existed, as there were only three gun carriers for every 24 troop carriers, and very few pictures exist of Blowtorch vehicles as it is. So I would go off the pattern set by the rest of the company's vehicles. There is a picture of some Blowtorch halftracks, I think it's the fourth post in this thread.

psychoblue23 wrote:

bufflehead wrote: This is what I usually do:  Assemble as much of the wheels as possible including the drive sprocket and idlers.  Assemble the lower hull with all the arms according to instructions.  Now because of the interlapping nature of the wheels I then assemble all of suspension parts onto the hull with white glue.  Once dry I assemble the (Magic) tracks and fit onto the suspension with the correct track sag, however I break each side of the tracks into two sections so that they can be removed after the glue dries.  Once the glue on the tracks dries I remove the tracks, soak the hull in warm water to soften the white glue and then remove all the wheels, etc for painting.  Then I continue with the rest the kit until complete.  This method lets me paint all the major parts/assemblies separately and ensure good paint coverage.   Again, this is just my way and may not be the best way to do it.  My explanation may not be very good so feel free to ask for clarification.  Hope this helps! Wow i had no idea.. so are we talking white glue like elmer's glue? But the tracks will be glued with Ca glue? cuz those will stay perm. That seems liek a decent idea.. ill wait a bit to hear from others.. but it deff makes sense.. I will be adding the camo tho.. if that makes any diff... but i imagine that can be done once tank is fully complete.

Yeah, I'm hoping others will share their methods as well!  Elmer's glue is what I use but I read somewhere that a similar glue called Soho(?) is better.  Elmer's isn't very strong and I have to be careful not to put too much pressure on the glued spots. Were you going to use CA glue (superglue) for the tracks?  Although they are Magic Tracks I would still use a slower setting liquid styrene glue like Tenax, Tamiya Xtra Thin or ProWeld.  This allows you time to shape the tracks correctly around the wheels. 

bufflehead wrote:

will share their methods as well!  Elmer's glue is what I use but I read somewhere that a similar glue called Soho(?) is better.  Elmer's isn't very strong and I have to be careful not to put too much pressure on the glued spots. Were you going to use CA glue (superglue) for the tracks?  Although they are Magic Tracks I would still use a slower setting liquid styrene glue like Tenax, Tamiya Xtra Thin or ProWeld.  This allows you time to shape the tracks correctly around the wheels.

oh cool.. i have both tenax and the tamiya stuff. I really liek the tamiya extra thin.

Duke Maddog wrote:

I've read this Thread with interest, and as I've already built Whittman's Last Ride (Tiger I #007) I can't very well do it again. Still, I would like to join this Build, pending the answer to a few questions. -> I see everyone building 1/35th scale armor. Is this build open to 1/72 scale armor? 1/72 scale is all I build, and I have a Dragon kit that might fit this nicely pending the answer to the next question. -> Was there any German tank Ace that drove/used a Panther G (early) in the following markings: 3/Pz Rgt 12, 12th Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" Ardennes, 1944 Pz Rgt 27, 19th PzDiv, Warsaw, 1944? There is another option for Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1st Pz Div "LAH", Normandy, 1944, but there are literally no markings on this tank as depicted in these instructions, only a camo pattern. Ill do it only if it is the only version offered in this kit that was used by a Tank Ace, but I'd love to do one that has markings.    I've done an extensive search myself to find out of any of these marking options were used by any of Germany's tank Aces but came up with zilch. I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance.

Hi Duke, since 1/72 is all you build, then sure, no worries.  We'd been focusing on 1/35th scale kits, but since our emphasis is also on the history and learning more about the Aces and their exploits I certainly wouldn't want you to be excluded. 

Sorry for the delay in response, I'm back at work after 9 days of vacation and I'm in a training class all this week, so things are a bit hectic.  When I get a chance I'll see if I have anything that might help you with choosing which unit and Ace etc.

Gun Tech wrote:

OK, I did a search about Werner Wolff, and I didn't have a lot of results...... Anybody know anything about him? http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/Wolff.html This is the only thing I could find, non including the results only mentioning his Knight Cross award date.

I did a little searching and so far have only been able to find info about him on various lists for awards.  I'll dig a little deeper and hopefully I can find something in my references at home.

Plastic_Cross wrote:

Scott, I have a question.  You're building Albert Ernst's Nashorn and I signed up for the Albert's Hornisse.  Do you think that since there's so little difference between the Hornisse and the Nashorn that I should pick another Ace/vehicle to model?  From the info I've gleaned so far, I haven't found anything that associates him with a specific Hornisse vehicle.  I don't mind if I need to choose something else.....there's no bad subject in this Group Build.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks, Larry

Hi Larry, if I'm not mistaken I believe he had a Hornisse and a Nashorn.  I have my Panzer Aces book with me at work so I'll go back through it during lunch and will post more info about that.  Then we can decide who does which. 

the Postman wrote:

Gun Tech, I feel your pain . I'm having trouble fingding info about Karl Mobius. Wikipedia provides no info other than his unit. I have managed to find his turret number on panzeraces.net. I also discovered (on panzeraces.net) that he was the CO of the 1st company of the schwere SS PzAbt. 101 (101st SS Panzer (Heavy) Battalion). I've managed to find a photo of his 3rd platoon commander's Tiger I somewhere in France, just before D-day. I could copy the camo pattern and add the new turret numbers, but I'd hoped to find some more info or even a photo of Mobius' vehicle. I'm wondering if someone might be able to recommend a good unit history of the schwere SS PzAbt. 101 (101st SS Panzer (Heavy) Battalion)?? The search continues

Here is a nice list of some Panzer Aces, that might prove helpful to some of you.

http://www.alanhamby.com/aces.html

Here is a link that breaks out the order of battle for the 101st SS Heavy Panzer Battalion that might be helpful to you.

http://www.panzerace.net/english/pz_oob.asp?page=5

And some more links for the 101st

http://www.answers.com/topic/101st-ss-heavy-panzer-detachment

http://web.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/gerob/ghqpz/101pzabt.html

And here is a link to more Tiger information.

http://www.alanhamby.com/tiger.html

Sorry for the multiple posts, but I figured it would be easier to reply to each post individually for clarity. 

espins1 wrote:

Hi Larry, if I'm not mistaken I believe he had a Hornisse and a Nashorn.  I have my Panzer Aces book with me at work so I'll go back through it during lunch and will post more info about that.  Then we can decide who does which.

If he used both types, then it would be quite interesting to get them both modeled.  I just ordered Panzer Aces I and II last night using the links you provided.   Hopefully I'll get them by the weekend and can help track down some of this info.

Thanks - Larry

Plastic_Cross wrote:

espins1 wrote: Hi Larry, if I'm not mistaken I believe he had a Hornisse and a Nashorn.  I have my Panzer Aces book with me at work so I'll go back through it during lunch and will post more info about that.  Then we can decide who does which.  If he used both types, then it would be quite interesting to get them both modeled.  I just ordered Panzer Aces I and II last night using the links you provided.   Hopefully I'll get them by the weekend and can help track down some of this info. Thanks - Larry

Panzer Aces I was a good book, although some chapters were more interesting than others.  I enjoyed the chapters on Hermann Bix and Albert Ernst the most. 

I just finished reading "Red Storm on the Reich: The Soviet March into German 1945" by Christopher Duffy. Very interesting read on the Vistula-Oder operations and the conquest of Silesia, Pommerania and Prussia.... something that's not written about very often.  My mother (7 years old at the time) and her family were forced to flee from their estate in Silesia in 1945 and lost everything, so this period in history is very interesting to me. 

I'm going to start reading Panzer Aces II today.

espins1 wrote:

Duke Maddog wrote: I've read this Thread with interest, and as I've already built Whittman's Last Ride (Tiger I #007) I can't very well do it again. Still, I would like to join this Build, pending the answer to a few questions. -> I see everyone building 1/35th scale armor. Is this build open to 1/72 scale armor? 1/72 scale is all I build, and I have a Dragon kit that might fit this nicely pending the answer to the next question. -> Was there any German tank Ace that drove/used a Panther G (early) in the following markings: 3/Pz Rgt 12, 12th Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" Ardennes, 1944 Pz Rgt 27, 19th PzDiv, Warsaw, 1944? There is another option for Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1st Pz Div "LAH", Normandy, 1944, but there are literally no markings on this tank as depicted in these instructions, only a camo pattern. Ill do it only if it is the only version offered in this kit that was used by a Tank Ace, but I'd love to do one that has markings.    I've done an extensive search myself to find out of any of these marking options were used by any of Germany's tank Aces but came up with zilch. I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance.  Hi Duke, since 1/72 is all you build, then sure, no worries.  We'd been focusing on 1/35th scale kits, but since our emphasis is also on the history and learning more about the Aces and their exploits I certainly wouldn't want you to be excluded.  Sorry for the delay in response, I'm back at work after 9 days of vacation and I'm in a training class all this week, so things are a bit hectic.  When I get a chance I'll see if I have anything that might help you with choosing which unit and Ace etc.

Excellent! I only hope that someone can find an Ace that used one of the versions of this Dragon Panther G so I can build it here. Otherwise, I don't think I have anything that I could submit for this build. I'll keep digging, but so far, I'm coming up dry.

Thansk for letting me in 

Glad to have you with us Duke.  I must say, it is so much harder trying to research Panzer Aces and their vehicles than it is to find info on Aces and their planes. 

You are SOOOO right! I'm coming up against so many brick walls, my head is getting flat! Oh well, just got to keep digging....

Thanks for the warm welcome. I may start this and at least get the construction done. Then I can paint it later once I find out which marking version was used by a German tank Ace. 

Duke Maddog wrote:

You are SOOOO right! I'm coming up against so many brick walls, my head is getting flat! Oh well, just got to keep digging....   Thanks for the warm welcome. I may start this and at least get the construction done. Then I can paint it later once I find out which marking version was used by a German tank Ace.

Good idea.  You may end up having to investigate a few books to get the answers you need.  I've found that I've gotten more from books than from many of the online resources so far.  It's definately some tedious but fun non-the-less.

espins1 wrote:

Does anyone have any photos, or know where I can find some of a Panther Ausf. A engine?  I need some guidance on how to paint my Panter engine for the Italeri GB.  The kit instructions are very basic with the engine colors..... black.  LOL

If the engine you speak of is the Maybach HL230 P30 there here is what I could find.

http://www.armortek.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1859

and only one pic of real thing

Plastic_Cross wrote:

Scott, I have a question.  You're building Albert Ernst's Nashorn and I signed up for the Albert's Hornisse.  Do you think that since there's so little difference between the Hornisse and the Nashorn that I should pick another Ace/vehicle to model?  From the info I've gleaned so far, I haven't found anything that associates him with a specific Hornisse vehicle.  I don't mind if I need to choose something else.....there's no bad subject in this Group Build.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks, Larry

Hi Larry,

I'm about halfway done compiling my notes from Chapter on Albert Ernst in the Panzer Aces book, and so far he had 2 Hornisse that he served on.

The first was "Falke" (Falcon) which he used in combat starting on December 19th in battles in and around Surash (part of the battles around Vitebsk) where over a 3 day period his Hornisse knocked out 15 Russian tanks.  "Falke" was knocked out and incapacitated on Dec 22 by artillery after a very nasty close quarter battle with Russian infantry.  In that engagement, Ernst was wounded on the shoulder by shrapnel, as well as Sotte his loader.  His driver Kotter was killed.  Later that day on Dec 22, Ernst led a party of infantry back into the town of Surash to destroy "Falke" with 4 Teller mines and 3 Satchel charges so as to prevent the Russians from repairing and using it against them. 

Ernst received another Hornisse named "Büffel" (which means Buffalo or Bison) on either December 22nd or 23rd.  I'll have more info on his exploits with this Hornisse either tonight or tomorrow.

I think there is a photo of "Büffel" in "Nuts and Bolts #14 Nashorn" which I'll dig up when I get home tonight.

So basically one of us can do "Falke" and the other "Büffel"

psychoblue23 wrote:

espins1 wrote: Does anyone have any photos, or know where I can find some of a Panther Ausf. A engine?  I need some guidance on how to paint my Panter engine for the Italeri GB.  The kit instructions are very basic with the engine colors..... black.  LOL If the engine you speak of is the Maybach HL230 P30 there here is what I could find. http://www.armortek.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1859 and only one pic of real thing

Is it safe to assume that green is the original engine color?  It would make sense, especially because the Italeri instructions have you paint the parts just under the engine grill screens in dark green.  Interesting.  Thanks for the pic psychoblue23.

Not sure buddy, this is the link I foudn the pic on.. its not in english so I doubt ti will be of any help...

http://klub.chip.pl/krzemek/jagdpanther/jagdpanther_nap.htm