M55 Quad 50 Vietnam - Diorama completed!!!

Hello everybody! Thanks for the comments.

Grimmo - I can't wait to see it finished neither. It's still going to take some time, but hopefully not so much anymore

Gary - I sent you a PM, could you take a look?

Well now, I decided to go with the current forum's fashion and try a new technique, hair spray chipping to be precise. I think those old, beaten up gas cans with their field-welded brackets make for perfect parts where the chipping could be feasible. So what I did was to paint the cans rusty brown:

Then dry-brush them gun-metal:

then cover with hair spray and finally spray OD. We are talking Humbrol paints here, so that's different from what the masters of chipping (INDY and Schnobs) do, as far as I know. But let's see what we shall see. After the OD dried really good I begun to bother it with a glass fibre pen (bought in an electronics store) but it was pretty resistant. So I helped myself with a little amount of lacquer thinner (but you have to be careful, this thing really has a strong "bite"). After I thought it'll do, I sealed everything with a mixture of future and water with a little water soluable black paint addition. You can see the results below:

I had my problems too, like scrubbing a bit too deep once or twice, but in the end I thing the effect is something I like.

I also started working on the ammo belts, you can see them here painted with Humbrol 12. My source for the belt is the AFV Club ammo boxes set, where you can get exactly 200 belted .50 cartridges in four runs. I'll write more about the belts next time.

Looking forward to your comments, stay tuned

Pawel

Hello Gary,

nice to hear from you. Thanks for your remarks. Looks like the LZ West is pretty well documented and their quad even had a nickname "Boss" and nice markings to go with it. So maybe if I knew it all before... How about those fotos you were writing me about, of the "alamo" of A102? Do you still have them?

Your gonna have to wait a little longer! I lost the PC I had them stored on, and we are still trying to get them off the old hard drive. They did retrive about 1/3rd of them thinking they had them all (about 3000 photos) But to make matters even worse the new PC will not read my backup discs, and there are about 2000 photos on them alone. But fear not I have a plan that will probably take forever. As for the photo of A102 with the Alamo in it; remember it's an aerial photo, and even then not the best. I do know where another copy of that one is.

gary

looking great! cant wait to see this finished!

Hello Gary,

nice to hear from you. Thanks for your remarks. Looks like the LZ West is pretty well documented and their quad even had a nickname "Boss" and nice markings to go with it. So maybe if I knew it all before... How about those fotos you were writing me about, of the "alamo" of A102? Do you still have them?

In the meantime I went on to do the ammo cans at last. First thing was to temporarily fix the guns to the trunnion, to prepare it for the fitting and reduce the number of loose parts to handle. Thus I got this:

Then I took four jerry cans from the Academy old M151A2 with trailer kit. By the way, this kit was a real bargain - for something like 6$ I got a jeep (just a little crude) with driver, a reasonable M416 trailer, a 4.2 inch mortar with crew, a piece of thin cardboard with printed C-Ration boxes and a lot of jerry cans. Ain't that cool? So I took four of those jerry cans which have nice sides, but crappy fillers and sawed the tops offa 'em. Then I took measurements of the .50s ammo box tray and fabricated corresponding parts of sheet styrene. I also added the feed ramp made out of stretched sprue that was later longitudally cut in half. The feed chute will be a modified kit part. The ammo belt comes from the AFV Club Ammo boxes set. For now I have something like this:

Looking forward to hear your comments on this, happy modelling and have a nice day

Pawel

well I for one am glad to see that you are still here, and looks like your doing very well as well. By the way that photo I asked you about is taken on the far southwest end of LZ West. The ridge line directly behind the fellow standing is the Hiep Duc Ridge Line. The area at the base on the right side is Hau Duc (another garden spot), and strait behind the ridge line (almost directly in front of the fellow standing) is the now famous place affectionately known as Siberia. The guy standing is a classmate of mine!

gary

Hello everybody!

It's been a long time, but I'm movin' on with the build at last. I started building the .50s. Here's what we get in the kit:

After the mendatory cleanup, I drilled the cooling jackets a bit and then went on to build the flash suppressors, so often seen on Vietnam quads. From what I heard it's a post WWII feature. Maybe somebody knows more about it - if so, I'd love to know it too! Anyhow, here's what the guns looked like before painting:

Then I started painting. First covered all the recessed detail in Humbrol black (33). Then after the paint settled a bit, which took about 30 minutes, I went over the raised detail with Humbrol gun metal (53). And you can see the effect below:

And that would be it for now. Happy modelling and have a nice day

Pawel

Mikeym, Bill - thanks for your comments, please excuse me I took so much time to answer.

Mikeym - I sure would be interested to see the "big honking box" as I also have plans to build the Duster - which is armed with twin 40mm Bofors. So maybe it cold have such a box around.

Bill - sometimes I get the feeling it's enough to "not be WWII" to look different in our armor forum. Well I sure also am curious how this one turns out.

And it is slowly turning. I converted the wheel attachments to correctly depict the wheels taken off as in the firing mode. Here's what it looks like now:

And I also have the gunner ready, or at least I'm close. You can see the separate thread on the gunner HERE. And now I tried to depict the dust that would surely deposit in the insides of the mount and test-seated the gunner in. Here's what it looks like:

I'm going to sand the boot tips of the gunner in order for the front shield to fit the mount.

Well I'm really not sure about the weathering, maybe you have a suggestion for me? Looking forward to your comments and have a nice day

Pawel

Thanks mikeym, I also like ammo boxes for storage, I keep my CD's in .50 boxes, they fit just perfect. The theory for now is: The WWII "tombstone" magazine held 200 .50 rounds, the .50 box (officially called M2A1!) only 100 rounds. As larger boxes were probably unavailable at that time, the Quad 50 crew welded some cut down gas cans to old ammo box trays and created cheap and voluminous ammo containers. Now to do it in 1/35...

First I had to part with the "tombstones". In the kit, there are two sets of 4 "tombstones", one set that attaches to the mount and one set of spares. The attachable ones have a bracket molded on them, and I need that bracket and only the bracket. I saw two options: first: file the bracketout of the magazine. Tried it - not effective enough. Option two: fabricate out of copper sheet metal. It turned out to be easy. I made four brackets and glued them to the mounts. Here's what it looked like in the end:

Now I'm looking for details on the ammo box tray, y'know, the part that normally connects the gun with the ammo box. The tray itself has a nice feed ramp, and I have to take a closer look.

Please stay tuned while I go on, I wish you all a nice day

Pawel

redleg12 wrote:

MECHTECH wrote: Pawel, you and Redleg mention 'TM' Photos. I know I am having a teflon moment. What are you refering to? For the M55 Quad the Technical Manual is TM 9-1005-208-xx. If the xx = 10, that is the operators manual, =20 the direct support maintenance manual, =20P the parts manual and =35 depot maintenance manual For most work the -10 is good to have. The -20 will give more details. Pawel, you don't want to use the big cans. They are for 40mm belt fed grenade ammunition. The AFV set is a great set. Just use the 50 cal cans  Rounds Complete!!

The 40mm boxes are useful for small parts stowage on AFV's like the M1A1/A2 Abrams and the M2/M3 Bradley IFV's. I think they stick tools in those boxes which would probably explain the lack of pioneer tools on the Abrams?

Hello!

Ken - interesting idea, makes me want to take a look at the movie!

Mikeym & Redleg - Thanks for clarification, my mind was too deep in AA to think about 40mm grenades . Now I'll stay with the idea to use cut down gas cans for ammo containers, as my foto references show. Gary and Wayne were saying the "big boxes" were more typical and I thought they ment the 40mm boxes - is this right or is there some other box type I missed?

In the meantime I'm working on the gunner and on the ammo feed system, I'll post fotos soon. Thanks in advance for your comments and have a nice day

Pawel

MECHTECH wrote:

Pawel, you and Redleg mention 'TM' Photos. I know I am having a teflon moment. What are you refering to?

For the M55 Quad the Technical Manual is TM 9-1005-208-xx. If the xx = 10, that is the operators manual, =20 the direct support maintenance manual, =20P the parts manual and =35 depot maintenance manual

For most work the -10 is good to have. The -20 will give more details.

Pawel, you don't want to use the big cans. They are for 40mm belt fed grenade ammunition. The AFV set is a great set. Just use the 50 cal cans 

Rounds Complete!!

Pawel wrote:

Hello everybody! I just got the 30 & 50 Caliber Ammo Boxes from AFV Club, number 35035. It will come really handy in the dio and also has 8 of the big boxes, it says they were intended for 40mm ammo. This would link the big boxes to M42 duster units, often operating close to the quads. But I already decided to go for the cut down gas cans. I also checked the PM, and decided not to install the platform, TM says platforms were only installed on quads mounted on M16 SP's I'm still looking for an idea on how to make/where to get the flash suppressors. Movin on, please stay tuned and have a nice day Pawel

Unless the M42 Dusters were mounting 40mm Mk19 beltfed grenade launchers those boxes were for the 40mm grenades. 40mm AA gun ammo was way larger in size.

http://www.greatmodels.com/~smartcart/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=AFV35035

When talking about US equipment, TM means Technical Manual. There are different kinds of TM's, operator's guides, repair & maintenance manuals and even lubricating charts. Many of them are very interesting to a modeller. They also have a lot of fotos and drawings in them, hence TM foto. Hope it helps, have a nice day

Pawel

Hello everybody!

I just got the 30 & 50 Caliber Ammo Boxes from AFV Club, number 35035. It will come really handy in the dio and also has 8 of the big boxes, it says they were intended for 40mm ammo. This would link the big boxes to M42 duster units, often operating close to the quads. But I already decided to go for the cut down gas cans.

I also checked the PM, and decided not to install the platform, TM says platforms were only installed on quads mounted on M16 SP's

I'm still looking for an idea on how to make/where to get the flash suppressors.

Movin on, please stay tuned and have a nice day

Pawel

Pawel wrote:

Hello everybody! Comments, that's what I like! Chris - yeah, I'll do that, the gunner will have a bug repellant on his helmet, and the helmet's cover will have camo "leaf" pattern on it. Gary, Wayne - that's very interesting. I also have this foto to look at: I can't be sure, but I think those guys put even four gas cans on their quad. So I thought it wasn't that uncommon, but your reaction makes me think. Now I have at least three options: 1) Regular .50 ammo box on tray - best covered by my fotos 2) Strange cut down gas cans - looks most interesting 3) Big "tankers" ammo boxes mounted directly to the quad - as indicated by the experts What would you model if it depended on you? I'd appreciate an advice - thanks in advance and have a nice day Pawel

when you retrived that photo; what did the caption have to say? Looks like the extreme west on of a place I was at once.

      In the photo you will notice the negative position of the gun carriage when it's on high ground. As for the gas cans being used to hold ammo, I'd go ahead and do it if that's what your after. I never seen anything like that, but sometimes it's what you have laying around that works best for you. One other thing I've noticed is that I've quads without the flash supressor as well as with them.

gary

Hello everybody! Comments, that's what I like!

Chris - yeah, I'll do that, the gunner will have a bug repellant on his helmet, and the helmet's cover will have camo "leaf" pattern on it.

Gary, Wayne - that's very interesting. I also have this foto to look at:

I can't be sure, but I think those guys put even four gas cans on their quad. So I thought it wasn't that uncommon, but your reaction makes me think. Now I have at least three options:

1) Regular .50 ammo box on tray - best covered by my fotos

2) Strange cut down gas cans - looks most interesting

3) Big "tankers" ammo boxes mounted directly to the quad - as indicated by the experts

What would you model if it depended on you? I'd appreciate an advice - thanks in advance and have a nice day

Pawel

Pawel wrote:

Hello everybody! Mike - thanks, I will! Chris - good to hear from you again, maybe I should advertise more Wayne - thanks for the comment, you have a very valuable info for me! Now that trick with the beer or C-ration can almost went into the popular culture, because you can see it in the movie "Apocalypse now", the PBR crew uses it a lot. Now I have a picture to clarify what I want to build, it looks like this: Source: "Armor of the Vietnam War (1) Allied Forces" by Michael Green & Peter Sarson, Concord Publication Company 1996 Hong Cong For some reason the quad's crew decided to replace the standard ammo box on its tray with a cut down jerry can welded to the remains of an old ammo box tray. The belt support seems to be integral to the quad. Now if somebody of the old hands could describe better what we see in the picture, that would probably help me even more. In the meantime I think I'll try to look for more pics and build something like this in 1/35. Please stay tuned and have a nice day Pawel PS. Today [11.11] is a Polish national independence day! Greetings from Poland to all!

the C-Rat can was used on the M60 to correct a design error in the feed ramp. Some guys also used an orange juice can as well. They have both ends opened up, and then the can is wired to the reciever so that it's a little higher than the ramp.

     Why these guys are using a cut down gas can is kind of baffeling! What they should be looking for is the large ammo can used on tanks. Also they look like they are firing the top guns most of the time, as the bottom ones have the smaller ammo cans.

gary

Great picture!

And it looks like you could have gone with the bug repelent in the helmet band. But I can't quite make it out, are you going to paint Mitchell Pattern on yours?

Good luck with the jerry cans

Hello everybody!

Mike - thanks, I will!

Chris - good to hear from you again, maybe I should advertise more

Wayne - thanks for the comment, you have a very valuable info for me! Now that trick with the beer or C-ration can almost went into the popular culture, because you can see it in the movie "Apocalypse now", the PBR crew uses it a lot. Now I have a picture to clarify what I want to build, it looks like this:

Source: "Armor of the Vietnam War (1) Allied Forces" by Michael Green & Peter Sarson, Concord Publication Company 1996 Hong Cong

For some reason the quad's crew decided to replace the standard ammo box on its tray with a cut down jerry can welded to the remains of an old ammo box tray. The belt support seems to be integral to the quad. Now if somebody of the old hands could describe better what we see in the picture, that would probably help me even more. In the meantime I think I'll try to look for more pics and build something like this in 1/35. Please stay tuned and have a nice day

Pawel

PS. Today [11.11] is a Polish national independence day! Greetings from Poland to all!

Hello everybody!

Thanks to your comments I was able to finish the battery pack and I also finished the power charger. Here's what they look like, I still have to decide how much to weather them before installation. Unfortunately the fotos are not so good, but anyhow:

I also put together the lifting jacks, couldn't help to use some more wire

Another simple thing to do was the platform

And now the hard part - in the fotos it's clear the "tombstone" magazines weren't used at all. All the Quads either use standard ammo box tray, or this cool modification - cut down jerry can for ammo feed. That's what I'd like to do in my model. Got some jerry cans from the old Academy M151 with trailer kit - they have good side detail byt crappy caps, so it's no problem cutting them down. How exactly they fit the gun itself - this I have yet to work out. If anybody has any info on this one - please write me. Looking forward to other comments too, have a nice day

Pawel

Hello everybody,

thanks a lot for Your comments. Now I know what the battery pack will look like.

Mike: - glad to help. It's good to know my WIP is of use to somebody. The wire I'm using is about 0.45 mm in diameter, or AWG 25 for you Americans. Got it from an auto battery cable.

Bill, Some - I agree wholeheartedly on the black. My favourite color for this is Humbrol 32, and I intend to use it on the battery and on the tires. And thanks for the compliments

Now, back to work - please stay tuned and have a nice day

Pawel

Pawel wrote:

Thanks for the comments! mikeym: I didn't add the other hold down pins, because after the battery gets installed, they will be completely out of view. But thanks for watching the fotos so carefully! redleg: Yeah, we all like to see that plastic-metal combination and why pay for expensive PE? . What color would you paint the batteries redleg? That question really bothers me. OD doesn't sound 100% right. The batteries shown in the TM even have manufacturers logo on them. Thanks once again and have a nice day Pawel

Any of the military batteries I have seen were Black. I would go with a semi gloss finish as the would not be flat.

Hope that helps

Rounds Complete!!

Hi Pawel, this is looking great, nice scratched details.

Re the flat black, I agree the battery should be dark,

but from my figure modeling and study of color, I no longer use "black" and "white" in my painting, because the colors are so stark that you really don't see them very often.  Stuff we routinely think of as black isn't, like tires, hoses, etc.

I think if you use a grey-black, a floquil weathered black, or similar non "black" black, it will look more authentic.

Just my $.02

Bill