Tiger 1 Initial production, s.Pz.Abt.502, Dragon #6600

There are 2 kitty's boxed up in my stash 3000 miles away. 1 vintage Tamiya kit, and a DML 3 in 1 'Micheal Wittman' The first has a Lion Roar extensive PE set to help it along. Probably will get some AM tracks as well, the DS ones are showing their age. 

Get the bucket account & post some WIPs!

For those that have this and are getting ready to build it- here's some things that I found along the way as I built one of mine this past weekend:

the driver's front plate...  I had a ^%^%$W# time getting that to fit in just right.  I wound up removing the lip on the bottom of the plate (it looks like it should interlock with the glacis plate, but the tolerance is way off) and sanding it down to a bevel.  With heavy duty C-clamps and patience it finally went in as needed.  Once installed, I had to use some putty to clean up any remaining gaps.

the hull top plate left a wide, nasty gap where it met the rear plate.  I'm talking about a 1/8" gap... which I fixed with strip styrene and sanded flush with the top of the rear plate.  While I think that there ought to be a small gap where these two items meet, it shouldn't be that big.

The torsion bars are a two-piece affair- first the torsion bars that fit inside the hull and then the suspension arms.  The torsion bars must be installed first and then the arms and while there is an alignment slot, it has a lot of play.  I glued everything down and level, so careful gluing could leave the suspension as movable.  I don't really see the movability as too practical since the contact patch between the two pieces is very small and looks pronce to breakage.

The good news is that otherwise, the kit is a dream to build with minimal cleanup and filling.

I plan on finishing this one off as #3 in a whitewash over panzergrey somethime later this week (I hope).

AHAAA! You believed the instructions! Best method I've found for the driver palte is to place in on the hull, not the deck, then rotate the tansmission/fender piece in from the front, it fits very well. Once in position use a chart pen or fine brush and glue the areas they touch with liquid glue. The upper deck's two front flats will slide down the groves formed by the assembly and the rear be at the right distants from the rear plate. Took me several Dragon Tiger 1's to figure this one out, now they just about fall togather.

Moral, always test fit before using a hammer, took awhile . Now if I can figure out how to get Dragons sping wire tow cables to actually bend and keep their shape while fitting :O tried heasting them red hot and cooling slow, still springy.

Can't type or spell well,lol, but it works ; )

SuppressionFire,
Got it, will do!

Dre,
My sample does not have that particular problem but then again I am not going 100% with the instructions, build sequence is different.
 
 I am going to nick the side plates from Dragon # 6383, that kit comes with a Zimmed side plate and omits the blank ones.

Which leaves me with an after market requirement;
Side skirts, what would be your best recommendation?

Svenne

Given the complexity, or lack thereof, of the side skirts, wouldn't simple sheet metal suffice? 

The fun beggins with the torsion bars and the road wheel arms...18 of in total.
From memory I think this is supposed to be a workable undercarriage but in my mind this SmartKit just hit its first big minus (-).
There is a fixed position for the road wheel arm identified by a small pin in the side wall, but you are instructed to shave that pin off.
If you do follow the instruction here you will land up with a road wheel arm that somehow needs to be glued to the torsion bar without spilling over glue to the side wall, if you are not carefuld the result is a fixed arm in the wrong position.
If you are bold enough to try you have 60 degrees play in the joint between the torsion bar and the road wheel arm.
Simply because the size of the parts do not allow for a more precise fit.
That is going to be interesting when alligning the road wheels

Svenne

Bugger that, I am going to use the fixed position and get moving

Svenne

It's what I wound up doing....

Svenne, concerning your plan to build '123' from the kit, these are the differences between '123' and the tanks in the kit:

1. The brackets for the 5 portions of the gun cleaning rods are moved some way back along the hull, about level with the turret. Check your photos.
2. The exhausts have no extension pipes.
3. The 5 big bolts on the sprockets are aligned to the holes, not the ribs.
4. The welded bumps for the air filter system are on the rear wall, plus the large V-shaped duct on the engine hatch.
5. The jack is stored between the exhausts, I think this is unique to '123'.
6. The wooden jack block is not on the rear wall, it's on the front hull roof.
7. The tools on the front hull roof are (presumably) arranged in the usual way, unlike the kit where the small spade is reversed.
8. There's a track-pulling cable on the left side wall.
9. There's no antenna mount on the rear right wall.
10. The rear light is the later type (a cylinder).
11. The tracks are the identical "left" pair, like in most Tigers.
12. There's a large spade stored in front of the driver.
13. The mantlet is the thick reinforced type.
14. There are side fenders; the first kind, with no reinforcing ribs or end plates, and not in exactly a straight line.
15. The front and rear mudguards are the later type with hinged portions.
16. The two small holes in front of the side sponsons, are reinforced with surrounding rings.
17. The standard frame for storing the toolbox is present on the rear left wall.

The Cyberhobby "Afrika" Tiger would be a better starting point.

David

Dre,
Sorry m8, missed your point about the torsion bars and the fiddly attachment. Went ahead without paying attention....
Sorry, won't happen again!

David,
Thank you for your support on this, Your input is greatly appreciated!
Dragon have re-released an excellent Tiger I Early, most of your valuable comments are actually accommodated for in the kit!

I will need to move a couple of things around and scratch the mounting brackets for the air filters, that’s OK.
I was thinking that I could use the side walls from  Dragon # 6383, which have the mounting brackets in place for the side fenders as depicted on the box art for #1 in the background.

I have followed your discussions with Hartmut on TIFF but there is one thing that is not yet clear in my mind.
What colour is # 123?
I am not convinced that it is the Kursk 1943 dark yellow with green stripes.

Don't belive in the "Tropen" scheme.

I allways thought that it is Panzer Grau with remains of a white wash.

Svenne

PS. Can not get hold of the Tunisian from where I am lokated right now, but a second # 6600 is on its way :)

I was thinking that I could use the side walls from  Dragon # 6383, which have the mounting brackets in place for the side fenders...

Not completely accurate, I'm afraid. The fenders on 6383 are exactly in a straight line, but those on '123' were kinked because they followed the line of the sponson. Only Cyberhobby's "Afrika" kit would be exactly right here.

Since Dragon have all the parts to build '123', I guess they would release it as a kit the same day you complete your conversion!

David

No worries, Svenne- it's your build!    When I saw how DML made the two-part suspension for this iteration of a Tiger I, I had to shake my head in wonder.  They've done articulated suspensions before that were much more usable than this...

Svenne Duva

SuppressionFire,
Got it, will do!

Dre,
My sample does not have that particular problem but then again I am not going 100% with the instructions, build sequence is different.
 
 I am going to nick the side plates from Dragon # 6383, that kit comes with a Zimmed side plate and omits the blank ones.

Which leaves me with an after market requirement;
Side skirts, what would be your best recommendation?

Svenne

Hey Svenne,

Good luck on the build my friend!

Re sideskirts: If you want solid Schurzen type I'd probably look at thin(ish) sheet Styrene. Perfect and cheap as chips!

No good for a 'grill' type skirt but ideal for a solid metal skirt and you can have as many attempts as you want.

ATVB

Ben

Thank You all for your valuable input, your comments and suggestions are very much appreciated!

Close up on the left wall side skirts, and you are right of course David, no mounting brackets visible and the skirts are sheet metal only
The track pulling cable is there as you suggested ;

View on the back wall, no mud guards, but clearly visible assembly points for the air cleaners;



Officers in argument, the kink in the assembly of the side skirts is very visible;

Is #123 in those photos from s.Pz.Abt 502 or from 503?  I was reading some refs last night that indicated that this Tiger was in s.Pz.Abt. 503... but either way, it was said that it was dark grey from the factory, yet it looks a lot lighter in tone than panzer grey.    These confusions are one reason I don't get too hung up on absolute historical accuracy.

This Tiger is in s.Pz.Abt. 503.

It was not their only Tiger numbered '123'. They had another one the prior winter, which was almost identical to this one; only it had an escape hatch, and no frame to hold the rear toolbox.

That other '123' was photographed in whitewash and it did appear to be dark grey underneath.

David

Since I would like to build something that looks like #123 as pictured enclosed I am taking several shortcuts.

The Torsion bars will only get positioned under the drivers and radio operators hatch.
The swing arms will be mounted to the fixed points with exception of the first 2 which will be working.
I will pay no attention to the turret interior other then the basics suggested by Dragon.

All in order to focus on the exterior.

The side mud guards will be scratched.

The Gun Shield comes from the spares box.
The tooling will get moved around and changed according to David’s list of exceptions.

I take it that the lack of response to my question about the color of # 123 as displayed is that nobody actually knows…

Dre, you are right, sort of puts you off trying to get everything historically correct but then again that is what i would like to achieve :)

David, I would agree that the Tunisian would have been a better starting point, but I was not aware until you posted your comment.
I simply missed that kit.

I perfectly understand that I would be better off building any off the suggested Turret Numbers.
100% respect to all the effort that has gown into the research to this release!
#6600 is just awesome!

But I have been waiting for the re-release since – 2005? Where I messed it up badly…

The last comment on TIIF was that there where visible remains of white wash on the barrel, so Panzer Grau with an almost fainted whitewash is what I am going for.

The pictures displayed come from the Wikipedia agreement with the Bundesarchive to make historical pictures available to the public, this is an incredible resource!

Basic hull OK, still need to get the mounting brackets for the air cleaners scratched, will post when done J

Svenne

Glad it's working out for you, Svenne.  I got the basic panzer grey with shading done on mine this past weekend, all of the tools are painted and I'm ready to do a whitewash for #3.  So far, so good!

Brilliant!

I guess we both need to start posting progress pictures :)

Thank you for Your support on this!

Svenne

I suppose you know that I drew the filter mounts:

http://tiger1.info/EN/AirPrecleaners.html

As for the colour, all I can say is that the Tiger was built in December 1942. The unit was free to overpaint it as needed.

David

Svenne Duva

I guess we both need to start posting progress pictures :)

Yes, you do

Pictures, eh?  Do you mean ...  holiday photos?  Pictures from the beach, that sort of thing?  I see that you're the discerning sort of chap... 'ere, let me show you these color beauties...

So far, I've got the modulated grey down and I've begun some light wear and weathering on the surfaces and tools before I hit the whitewash.  Since it appears that #3 was in service quite briefly before getting a pretty makeover, I won't beat it up too much before the Russian holiday spectacular.  There's tidemarks galore from the hairspray on the tools, but I'm hoping that between the suspension, the whitewash and the mud that they will just cease to be an issue. 

I'm going to add a few more light scratches and the like to the hatches and other user-friendly places before finishing up the wear on the whitewash.  The layers of white, grey and pioneer tool ought to look pretty good if I can pull them off right.  I'm pleased with the mufflers, but there's a little more work to do but they aren't going to be real rust buckets either.  This tank probably still had the factory smell when it was photographed.

So, I'm at the end of my comfort zone and reaching for the unknown goal line.  See, I've not done a whitewash yet so this'll be a first, and then there's the mud that has be added to still unfinished friuls and running gear.  Lotta work to do before the 17th.

SuppressionFire

There are 2 kitty's boxed up in my stash 3000 miles away. 1 vintage Tamiya kit, and a DML 3 in 1 'Micheal Wittman' The first has a Lion Roar extensive PE set to help it along. Probably will get some AM tracks as well, the DS ones are showing their age. 

Get the bucket account & post some WIPs!

HA!!!!!!!!!!!! Ive got ya beat I have six Tigers, seven if you count the prezimmed King Tiger, in my stash. These include the Academy Early Tiger with full interior and AM  goodies, the first issue of Dragons initial Tiger1 Leningrad, Italeria Tiger 1 H, and three Tamiya Tigers, Afrika Korps, Mid production, and late production

Total, complete disaster.  That's the only way to describe the failed whitewash attempt of last night.  Looks like I'm going to have to strip this down to the bare plastic and start over.  I am not a happy camper.

David,
Yes, of course I have the link, awesome job :), bin there looking since 2005?
Copright http://tiger1.info, David BYrden

Thanks for the comment on the colour!

Dre,
Very sorry to hear m8!
You are way ahead of me, Your main build looks great, if I would pick one thing I especially like it is the exhasuts! Rust at the knee, rough texture uppwards, looks very good.
Do you allready know why your whitewash went wrong?

Svenne

Svenne, i think that it was a combination of too many things- not enough experience in hairspray methods, too thin a covering paint, too much hairspray, humidity and god know what else.  I used Tamiya flat white, which pulls up just like one wants it to, except that it came up in large sections instead of smaller controllable fragments...  the tank looks like it has leprosy or some other terrible skin disease.  I wasn't able to control the amount of paint lifted up- once it began to lift, it all came off.

At this time, I don't think that I can rescue this by doing anything other than stripping it down and asking for a mulligan.  Three freakin' days of base paint, details and masking all shot to hell..... I am so *(&^*(&%!!!!!

But thanks on the exhausts- they at least are still usable!

Dude!

I feel your pain! I had to sit and watch as the paint job on my masterpiece Dragon Brummbar (well it was at the time as I'd only been building for 6 months) fell apart in front of my eyes-it was awful

I managed a relative 'save' but she was never the same.

Strip her down, get them tools off as they look superb (unless they have been killed too) and start over. Be strong young Jedi!

Best of luck my friend!

ATVB

Ben  

The good news, Ben, is that it only took ~15 minutes with some Simple Green, warm water and an old toothbrush to remove all of the paint.  The bad news was that it took most of  4 days to get all that paint on...  Simple Green really removes a fresh acrylic paint job quickly.  Handy stuff.

Going downstairs in a moment to begin the process all over-

Today's objectives-Nato black primer all over, paint the tools, then decanted hairspray on the tools and then the Panzer grey.  I don't think that I'm going to modulate the grey this time- there was too much contrast between the whitewash and the grey to see the tonal variations in the shades of grey from the first go-round.   All of the road wheels will be painted here and now as well.   

Tomorrow's objectives- remove grey from tools and possibly get the whitewash back on.