"Mein Panzer Ist Nicht Ihre Stütze" Tiger Diorama WiP - Updated 18-11-13

So you're going to convert it from an Initial to an Early? Why not just get the Tamiya Early and save the hassle?

I like your dio idea. I've had similar ideas brewing in my head but have never got around to building it. Good luck and I look forward to the finished product.

Erik

Geist

So you're going to convert it from an Initial to an Early? Why not just get the Tamiya Early and save the hassle? 

That does seem to make some sense. Granted you'd have to do some of the upgrades like the tracks for instance and PE grills.

Andrew,
I like your diorama idea, it is actually exactly what I have set out to do myself with the same kits, including the Academy "donator" but SchPAbt 503 #123.


The way the word Schtuze is used here it is more like support, ie."My tank is not your support"

The academy kit will provide you with enough interior detail to open up all hatches and requires no major surgery.
The counter balance is wrong though and should not be used.

I would tend to agree with what has already been said here though, you have a long way to go if you want to rework #6600 to a early production vehicle.
The Tamiya is probably a more suitable kit to base the conversion on.
You will need:
Stowage bin
Rear mud guards
Front mud guards
Side mud guards
Track replacement cable
Air cleaners
Heat deflectors

Anyway, good luck and thank you for sharing!

Svenne 

And on a different note, the Academy kit is not that bad.

Looks like a fun and well planned build Andrew!

I'm not into kit bashing yet so I can't comment on the conversion! I must build myself a 1/35 Tiger - I can't believe that I've been building for nearly two years and haven't built a decent Tiger yet! I think it must be all of the wheels that put's me off!

I don't know if I'm being daft but I honestly can't make out the four gold coloured square things that are under the picture of the DS tracks? What are they?

Best of luck and make sure you get a good blog going!

Kind regards,

Ben

Geist & Tigerman, Why not buy the Tamiya?  Cause I have the Dragon kit and I didnt want to spend to much more. I have plans for the left over parts of the two kits (Tiger come Red Alert Mammoth tank )

Svenne, thanks for the info on the Academy. I've read a couple of reviews for it which said its good for the price, good to know I should be able to transfer parts without to much hassle.

Could you suggest a better word than "schtuze"? The Officer being photographed will be leaning against the Tiger so could it work as a pun?

My original reason for getting the academy was minimum price v's parts I needed  ie Stowage bin and air cleaners, the interior was a bonus at the price ($25 inc post I couldnt get a AM interior for that)

I missed the mud guards & cable (thanks) but again the academy kit is there for that

Heat deflector? do you mean heat shroud (on the exhaust)? if so the tiger I'm doing like most das reich tigers didnt use them, they only used the basic exhaust that went to the level of the rear deck.

Thanks for the tips

Ben, this is my first go at it (kit bashing), and if Svenne's info works out (and I'm hoping it does) it wont be to bad. My plans for the left over academy kit will be the fun attempt.

Having just had a practice run on a 1/48 tiger I can say that doing all the wheels wasnt as bad as I expected so I'm not dreading this round.

As for those 4 gold things? they are the PE grills that game with the kit.

Thanks for the comments all

Andrew

Ben, those are the grills for the engine louvers.

Now, you can ignore this if you like, but these are the differences between Dragon's kit and "823" :

A full set of S-mine launchers.

The 12 welded cubes where the exhaust shields would be screwed in.

Side fenders (in a straight line, not the original layout).

Rectangular plate stored behind the driver's hatch.

Adapter plate (between the exhaust) is aligned vertically.

The hull front edges protrude further and the shackle holes are lower.

The turret has the escape hatch in the side.

There are reinforcing rings on the holes in the glacis plate.

The folding mudguards at front and rear.

The Feifel air cleaners, pipes and duct.

A spade is stored on the glacis plate.

The left and right tracks are identical (Early style).

The rear reflector is the cylinder type.

The antenna lug is not present on the right rear plate.

A thin cable is stored on the left side.

The turret bin is the large wide style, NOT what you'll find in the Academy kit. It's included in Tamiya's Afrika kit. But due to the turret escape hatch, both ends of it have 'bites' taken out.

David

Konigwolf- like what you've got started; I'll be watching. I've got the Dragon Stalingrad Tiger also, but mine will be built as is....whenever I get to it.

Stage Left, Thanks

@ Bryden, thanks for this info

Byrden

Now, you can ignore this if you like, but these are the differences between Dragon's kit and "823" :

A full set of S-mine launchers. Have Coming

The 12 welded cubes where the exhaust shields would be screwed in. Noted, and checked, thanks

Side fenders (in a straight line, not the original layout). Not sure of differences will check and modify at that stage, thanks

Rectangular plate stored behind the driver's hatch. Seen pics of other tigers with this, what for?

Adapter plate (between the exhaust) is aligned vertically. Noted will change, thanks

The hull front edges protrude further and the shackle holes are lower. Noted, thanks

The turret has the escape hatch in the side. Known, thanks

There are reinforcing rings on the holes in the glacis plate. ???

The folding mudguards at front and rear. Known, thanks

The Feifel air cleaners, pipes and duct. Known, thanks, coming

A spade is stored on the glacis plate. known, supplied in dragon kit as unused item

The left and right tracks are identical (Early style). I Assumed the AM tracks should be right, will double check thanks

The rear reflector is the cylinder type. ???

The antenna lug is not present on the right rear plate. Noted, thanks

A thin cable is stored on the left side. Known, thanks

The turret bin is the large wide style, NOT what you'll find in the Academy kit. It's included in Tamiya's Afrika kit. But due to the turret escape hatch, both ends of it have 'bites' taken out. This is contrary to my photo evidence (though I admit I may be wrong in interpretation I'm no expert)

David

thanks,

Andrew

Well while I was replying to the last post the postman came with this

It's not quite perfect my tanks markings are 832 in black with 823 over the top. This set has the 832 no problems I will need to do some 'cut and paste' with the remaining to do the white outlined 823.

Andrew

The side fenders were originally parallel to the edge of the side wall, which has a slight kink in the middle. Later they were simply put in a straight line.

The rectangular plate was for sealing the forward hole in the engine hatch when travelling underwater.

The reinforcing rings are described here:   http://tiger1.info/EN/JibSockets.html

Your AM tracks are the correct ones.

The rear reflector in the kit is a rectangular one, as used on smaller German vehicles. This was soon changed to a cylinder which you'll see in almost all Tiger photos.

There are several photos of 823 on this page: http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=39&sid=d2e878dae9f8fd6b7c79926ecb04c533

I have larger copies of some photos in my reference books. But my full list of details for 823 depends on the timeline of design changes as published by Doyle and Jentz in "DW to Tiger 1".

This photo shows support strips on the sides of the turret bin, implying that it's the wide kind:

Other tanks of the unit have the wide bin also, and have made cutouts in it.

David

Another detail: with the S-mines added to the front hull, the designers had to move the holders for the cables and gun cleaning rods.  They are considerably further back than in the Initial kit. This means you'll have to fill the holes for the original ones.

I don't know whether this tank had 5 long rods or 6 short ones.

David

Howdy!

I like the title a lot, when I first read it I thought: "who is leaning against the tank?" so I guess it would work for a german speaking person. By the way it could work as a joke, whereas otherwise it might come off as a little jerky... Stay alert on the details and good luck with your project!

Paweł

David again thanks for your time

Pawel, thanks for the kind remarks.

Andrew

Cool Tiger project Konigwolf!

The brass mines look awesome. Looking forward to more on this one. I recognize the markings from Squadrons' Walk around series of reference books. Agreed its one of the most interesting camouflage schemes for this vehicle.

With all the leftovers you can build another generic Tiger, possibly a knocked out unit? A New Zealand Division Sherman Firefly driving by would be appropriate.

Jason I do believe you have mentioned Kiwi Fireflies to me before LOL. I must admit it does sound interesting though there would be some updating to do to the Tiger, maybe to much, though I like the concept, maybe a thought for the future.... I had actually toyed with doing a tiger flipped and burnt out from a fighter bomber attack. But I think I'll stick with kit bashing the leftovers into a Mammoth style tank from Red Alert. What's cooler than a tank with an 88mm gun? A tank with 2 88mm's

Andrew

Well small update. Nothing more actual built. Between loungeroom reno's (where my comp and workbench are/should be) and getting addicted to WoT beta (World of Tanks) havn't had time. What I do have is the Academy kit, it arrived last week so I've been poring over the instructions and comparing parts between the two. What i can say is the Dragon has a much higher level of detail. Also the figures arrived in todays post, so have everything except one thing.

What I am missing is the rear storage bin, which has turned into a very confusing item. I've got photo's of the vehicle I'm doing without a bin and with a bin of the type that has side securing bolts both should of been taken on the same day. I also have photo's of it as a previous numbered vehicle with crescents taken out of the bin near the turret escape hatches, then theres the picture I have showing it having a verticle strip of angled metal holding the bin on. Also every artist image I have shows it with the sercuring bolts on top (as in the Academy kit version), I discounted this one as I have only seen it in artist versions not photopgrahic proof. So given one possible and 3 definite versions of the stowage bin I chose the easiest to locate, the version with bolts attaching to the side.

Well thats all for now hope to get some bench time tonight

Andrew

Andrew:

I can't find the photos of this tank that you just described. I looked on this page, which supposedly has thumbnails of all known photos:

http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=39&sid=772eb1245c86919a44fee435794a6e99

I would discount any and all technical details in colour illustrations. The technical researchers and the colour artists are different people and they each focus on what they do best.

David

David, thanks for the link but I already have it, (used them alot so far). Many of those pictures of 823 are taken 20 April when Himmler visited the unit. Some quite plainly show the stowage bin I'll be using. I have another from the same set that show 823 without the stowage bin at all. Now these pics show that 823 was a renumbered 832. I have pictures from Schneider's Tigers in Combat II showing 832 about a month before using the stowage bin version having the crescents taken out of the side.

Actually I had a thought, stowage bins are not heavily armored by any means so its not unreasonable to assume that they (individual tanks) may of gone through a few of they saw a bit of combat, which Das Reichs tanks did (when operational) during first 1/2 1943. Also only being bolted on, not welded distance's of travel (which Das Reich also did) may of accelerated need for replacement if already combat damaged.

Andrew

Andrew:

A photo of '832' has been posted as new here, perhaps you haven't seen it.... ?

Bottom of the page:

http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?sid=115683bb056ad6e2645315c61449c726&postid=3699#post3699

Where did you find the new photo (without a bin)? I've not seen it.

David

Thanks for the link david, I had overlooked that image. While its pure guess, I its an educated guess that the images of das reich 832 in march '43 is the same vehicle as das reich 823 (overwritten 832).

As for the pic showing the lack of stowage bin. It is actually one of the ones on the tiif.de site (on double check), its just a larger version I stumbled across. Size that I found, as you can see it look very much without the bin so I put it through an enlarging program (2nd pic) which confirms

While there does seem to be something there, it at least is not a standard stowage bin, look at the shape of in the shadow just below the rear (right) most officers hand its far from a flat surface. I could be wrong but it just looks wrong to me.

Site I got a pic from? Cant remember sorry was just trawling google images.

Andrew

I think that photo shows the same bin as all the others:

and it's the Afrika bin, with cutouts at both ends; a smaller cutout at the left side.

David

David, yep I'm probably wrong but I stil say it looks fishy, might come back to that later in another post, but for now, we will say I'm wrong.

Anyhow finally got some airbrush time so I got the hull painted and a move on again with the build. Also the new PE stowage build arrived and happy to see that there's stuff for the crew as well, eg medals & headphones (more on that when the time comes though).

Pic's

First shows the upper and lower colours. I'll admit while not the exact colours they are only a shade off as they were as close as I could get local (thanks David for the engine bay pic and information on your site, helped nail down the color choice). You can also see the additions I added to the side wall that were on the Academy kit.

Thats it for now, another update soon I promise.

Andrew

Engine bay and transmission test fitted. Had to do some modifers to the rear fire wall to make it fit as the Academy kit hull was slighty wider.

Here's the transmission, you can see the modifcation in this shot I had to do to make it fit

    Panzer, I'm new to this. Do guys model oil stains inside around the machinery? How do you finish the floor area where there is traffic I wonder? I have 1/35 Lee by Academy , "Burma Bang Box," that is in need of an engine and an interior/exterior finish. Sure a lot of work painting all that ammo! Thanks for your post and pictures, Paul V Bangkok/Los Angeles

Paul, considering the Tiger was a resource hog when it came to breakdowns and servicing yes I do plan to add grease stains etc. While I'm not a mechanic I am more than familiar with mechanics and will be drawing on the knowledge and the few internal shots I have of Tigers to weather her internally.  As to how and how much you will have to wait and see (I will be posting pics of finished results and description on how)

Andrew

Hey my name is chad connolly i have built 823 for AMMS australia i have alot of documentation on this tank from books to real info sent from friends in deutsch land.

As you can see my colour patens dont much up to well.

And here is the new 832

LOL sorry i can tell you used a translator for "Mein Panzer Ist Nicht Ihre Stutze" this dose not make sence. Im half german and the right way to say it is "Mein Panzer ist nicht deine Angelegenheit" wich means "my panzer is not of your concern".

On a better note cant wait to see how your tiger turns out :)

Chad

Greedy

LOL sorry i can tell you used a translator for "Mein Panzer Ist Nicht Ihre Stutze" this dose not make sence. Im half german and the right way to say it is "Mein Panzer ist nicht deine Angelegenheit" wich means "my panzer is not of your concern".

On a better note cant wait to see how your tiger turns out :)

Chad

Problem Chad, thats not what I'm saying (or trying to say at least).

I don't think I originally said that the officer being photographed will be leaning against the Tiger.

So if I understand right (I'm better at Japanese than German), "stutze" is the right word or translation for prop. What I'm saying is My panzer is not your prop/support/pillar, now pun/double entendre that with the other english meaning of prop, ie "stage prop" or in this case a photographic prop. Is this correct with this view of things or am I still way off?

Andrew

PS Yes I did use an translator, but only for the translation of "prop" to "stutze". I know some German, not alot, but some.

A far as the other  stuff goes Chad,

E-mail sent, thanks. Sounds interesting.

Scanned over the pages of you MM post, looks great, hope to give it a better look tomorrow.

And thanks for encouragement

Andrew