What's left at Ft. Knox and the Patton Museum

Rob Gronovius

Restoring the vehicles was a big EPA deal. Most of the old paint (probably lead based) and the petroleum product residue inside the vehicles had to be pressure washed out of and off of the vehicles, reclaimed, decontaminated, etc. It's a very expensive process.

Can't just flush it down the storm drains like the old days. The military is still cleaning up superfund sites around the country.

TV series "Ground War" showed a German AT piece being pressure washed to remove old paint.

There's a monetary part to that. It costs money to ship the vehicles and to prepare the sites for display (added museum space, concrete pads, etc.). Restoring the vehicles was a big EPA deal. Most of the old paint (probably lead based) and the petroleum product residue inside the vehicles had to be pressure washed out of and off of the vehicles, reclaimed, decontaminated, etc. It's a very expensive process. Knox had a great deal of fully restored armor inside the museum from an FT-17 and Mark VII from WW1 to early 1930s armor and to the end of the Cold War. The Elvis in the Army display was impressive to say the least.

Can't just flush it down the storm drains like the old days. The military is still cleaning up superfund sites around the country.

If I'm not mistaken, only about 10% of the collection was on display at the Patton Museum.  They have hundreds of vehicles stored.  I would think that the Army could provide the equipment to outfit several museums.  But I realize that we're dealing with a great big bureaucracy here and common sense and clear reasoning are not a requirement.  Rick.

the doog

 

Rob Gronovius:

 

the doog:

What a cryin' shame, honestly--WHY?

When I was there, they had that beautiful Panther II on display, and the Stug IIIG in original paint and markings along with the Pz III.

What's behind this liquidation of all these museums and troves of history?

It's not being liquidated. The equipment belongs to the US Army Armor Center and Schools (aka The Armor School). The Armor School moved to Fort Benning, GA so the museum relocated with the school. It'll take some time for Benning to set up the museum to the standard it was at Knox.

You can thank your congressmen for initiating the BRAC changes that moved the school. It was a federal law they passed and one that the military must follow.

 

I see.....man, that's just depressing to see it all getting shuffled around. Somehow, I just don't think it'll be as well displayed and taken care of with all the budget slashing that[s going on.

 

awwww...When was the stuff ever well maintained?

WWII ended in 1945 and most of the time the equiptment at Knox ( and , presumably  Aberdeen ) sat rusting outside.

I visited the Knox display in the late 1970s thru early 1980s.

The only items I viewed on base that appeared to be kept indoors were either modern postwar Soviet or a WW2  American M3 tank and half track.

LOL.......don't believe for a minute BRAC is entirely responsible for the move....they just wanted to get it all out of Manny's critical  "AMPS "  style contest scrutiny.................

Rob Gronovius

 

the doog:

 

What a cryin' shame, honestly--WHY?

When I was there, they had that beautiful Panther II on display, and the Stug IIIG in original paint and markings along with the Pz III.

What's behind this liquidation of all these museums and troves of history?

 

 

It's not being liquidated. The equipment belongs to the US Army Armor Center and Schools (aka The Armor School). The Armor School moved to Fort Benning, GA so the museum relocated with the school. It'll take some time for Benning to set up the museum to the standard it was at Knox.

You can thank your congressmen for initiating the BRAC changes that moved the school. It was a federal law they passed and one that the military must follow.

Yes, it wasn't that long ago, but in 2005 BRAC was announced and the Armor Center's move to GA was mandated by law.

Correct me if I'm wrong,but didn't they just finish renovating the Patton Museum a few years ago?

thank you for taking the time to answer my post, to bad you didn't get to know the CEV s because they were alot of fun.

I'm very glad you made it through your career, and came home ok through it all.

Thank you for serving your country, and for letting all of us know about Fort Knox, still say it's a shame. good luck to you.

the doog

What a cryin' shame, honestly--WHY?

When I was there, they had that beautiful Panther II on display, and the Stug IIIG in original paint and markings along with the Pz III.

What's behind this liquidation of all these museums and troves of history?

It's not being liquidated. The equipment belongs to the US Army Armor Center and Schools (aka The Armor School). The Armor School moved to Fort Benning, GA so the museum relocated with the school. It'll take some time for Benning to set up the museum to the standard it was at Knox.

You can thank your congressmen for initiating the BRAC changes that moved the school. It was a federal law they passed and one that the military must follow.

What a cryin' shame, honestly--WHY?

When I was there, they had that beautiful Panther II on display, and the Stug IIIG in original paint and markings along with the Pz III.

What's behind this liquidation of all these museums and troves of history?

cevcommander

I saw one of your posts that you started your career as a 12F, and was on both AVLB s and CEV s.

I am also a old 12F, I served 1970 to 1982 on both vehicles.

reading on what they have done to Fort Knox just blows me away, that is/was the armour center for the Army.

I am currently working on a web site for 12F s to look at pictures and link up with others, I would be interested to hear about your career if you wish to contact me at SSGGBROOT@NETSCAPE.NET.

I don"t think we might have ever ran across each old, but maybe knew others. I f nothing else I am very interested in what happened to the mos and vehicles after I got out- medical.

My 12F time was very limited. I joined the Guard in 1983 and went to basic on the split training option. The summer of 1984 was spent at AIT and I drilled with the Engineer company for 3+ years total (83-86). The next year (85) was my ROTC advance camp at Ft. Bragg and I also went to annual training with a tank company from my division (50th Armor Div) later that summer.

I was commissioned active duty in 1986 and entered active duty as an armor officer.

I took a quick walk through the museum before I signed out this afternoon. When I say quick, I mean quick.

All that's left inside is one old cannon in the foyer. The gift shop area remains intact, but sells mainly T-shirts and those pre-built Forces of Valor armor pieces.

When you walk into the museum proper, to the left is a large room devoted to ROTC. OK, that's about 30 seconds worth of looking.

To the right is where the Patton collection is located; roughly the same spot it was before. His Cadillac is still there, but the deuce and a half command post truck is gone. Added is a beat up 3rd Army Jeep that looks like the one I took photos of at Ft. Lee, VA's Quartermaster museum. I'm not sure if it's the same one or just one dressed up to look like one of his command Jeeps.

Also on display is one of his ivory handled pistols and belt. Just the .45 cal Peacekeeper. The .357 isn't there any longer, although I'm not sure if it was there previously. I do remember it used to be there years ago.

That took about 5 minutes to see what was left.

Shows how long it's been since I've been to mother Knox, Congrats on your retirement and thanks for your career of service to our nation.

This is very sad news to hear!  I finished basic in Nov 09 at Ft. Knox.  I always loved the Patton Tank Museum, I'm glad I got to take the pictures I did when I had the chance.  I just hope all of the tanks find a nice new home.  Well, it wont be the same now so I'm just happy I got that opportunity.  Its crazy how much the Army has changed even for the short time I've been in. 

I saw one of your posts that you started your career as a 12F, and was on both AVLB s and CEV s.

I am also a old 12F, I served 1970 to 1982 on both vehicles.

reading on what they have done to Fort Knox just blows me away, that is/was the armour center for the Army.

I am currently working on a web site for 12F s to look at pictures and link up with others, I would be interested to hear about your career if you wish to contact me at SSGGBROOT@NETSCAPE.NET.

I don"t think we might have ever ran across each old, but maybe knew others. I f nothing else I am very interested in what happened to the mos and vehicles after I got out- medical.

This was the latest information on the Patton Museum. I got this email this morning, but it was sent Friday afternoon (I'm retiring, I leave early on Fridays now).

The "temporary" Museum Gift Shop at Newgarden Inn is now closed to move back to the "General George Patton Museum of Leadership".

 

The newly remodeled General George Patton Museum of Leadership and the Museum Gift Shop will open to the public on April 1 at 9 AM.

 

"Come See What We've Done"

I'll check it out on my way off post after I've signed out on Friday and let you know if it's worth a trip down here.

Rob Gronovius

3rd Bde, 1st ID has been at Knox for at least 2 rotations to the sandbox. I'm retiring in July. My last duty day before I begin terminal leave is Friday, April 1st.

Congratulations !

You can spend more time here with the rest of us ..........

3rd Bde, 1st ID has been at Knox for at least 2 rotations to the sandbox. I'm retiring in July. My last duty day before I begin terminal leave is Friday, April 1st.

Rob, thanks for the update. The last I heard a brigade from 1st ID was moving to Knox, is that still the plan? you said you were clearing post, where are you heading?

Tim Ellis

I did my basic there July thru September 1966 googled a map a while back all it would show me were streets it would'nt show me any of the buildings there. wanted to see if I could find the barrick building where I was located at.                ACESES5                                         

deafpanzer

I shouldn't have waited too long on making a trip to Fort Knox from Indy.  Its about three hours drive or longer.  I thought there are some German AFVs too or are they gone too?  I recall seeing a picture of Tiger or Panther displayed inside Patton museum. 

Gone, moved or in the process of being moved. Nothing inside on display in the museum. There WAS all sorts of WW2 German armor inside for decades. All gone, not there no more, longer trip to see it for you.

I shouldn't have waited too long on making a trip to Fort Knox from Indy.  Its about three hours drive or longer.  I thought there are some German AFVs too or are they gone too?  I recall seeing a picture of Tiger or Panther displayed inside Patton museum. 

where did the T28 go?

Rob Gronovius

The old wooden barracks are gone.

I remember those.  Back in the early '80s my high school fencing club used one for practice.  The long barracks room was perfect for fencing.  As I recall, they were pretty dilapidated even then.  Haven't been back there in almost 30 years, sounds like I wouldn't recognize anything anymore.

Paul

Thanks.I saw a Google satellite photo a few years ago showing the trees surrounding the Knox depository were cut down, too!

I'm not gonna recognize the place.

My only solace : the US Cav store still exists in the area...........

The MBT70 and the XM803 are not where they used to be displayed. The museum itself is closed for another two weeks, but most of the lobby armor (18 ton Ford and the Ft-17) aren't there any longer.

As to the Goldfinger prop, it's probably there since it is a Ft. Knox artifact as opposed to an Armor Center related item.

Bottom line, if I didn't list it, it is NO longer on display anywhere on post and was either shipped to Georgia already or carted off to Richardson Motor Park to prep it for movement to Georgia.

The bureaucracy took over, eh?

What of the MBT-70 and Ft. Knox museum model?

The old wooden barracks are gone. In their place is the largest office complex in Kentucky. The Maude Complex is HQs to the US Army Human Resources Command (new name for the old PERSCOM). That whole area is much different with personnel, recruiting and accessions organizations from St. Louis, Alexandria, VA, Indianapolis, Ft. Monore, all relocating to Knox.

Thanks.

No mention in your post of the MBT 70 on base.

I've not been on base since the mid-1980s.

At the time the old wood barracks lookded like they hadn't been painted since the movie Goldfinger.

Any improvement?

BTW.is the Goldfinger movie prop of Ft. Knox still at the museum?