WIP SturmPanzer II or Bison II

Tony,

Info on the Bison II is hard to come by...only 12 were built and all were sent to N. Afrika where they were lost in combat. Achtung Panzer has some line drawings that shows 8 rounds were stored in the rear area of the compartment and doesn't show any ready-round holders (but then it doesn't have any floor detail at all). The placement of the radio gear by Alan is probably guess-work as well.

HTH!

Thanks Bill

There's a photo of one with the engine deck and engine removed in the Rommels Funnies book and I see no evidence of shells stored in the firewall like that.

The kits gun armor shield mount struts are for sure wrong. I got a photo that show how they were and your line drawing confirms this.

As for the radio,it must of been on that side somewhere,you can see the antenna and a set of head phones hanging there on the left side??????

Thanks

Tony lee

Cant help you there Tony but that build looks good.

Oh Bodge I was counting on you man

That is a picture from a build that aka "Driver" did a while back. I haven't even started yet,only researching it.

Thanks

Tony lee

That space along the side where the Alan kit has the round holders is actually on top of the "tunnel" for the re-directed drive-shaft...so it's not an area the crew could stand in anyhow IMHO. It's plausible that it could be used for round storage but I have no idea if it's accurate or not.

I think you're right about the radio gear needing to be on that side, just not sure if it would be on the floor or up on the hull sponson side. One thing's for sure, that photo you posted shows there wasn't a lot of room inside it no matter where they stuck things!

Ain't that the truth. They say it's being off-loaded from the ships hole in north Africa from the factory.

Tony lee

Tony, thought I could help with info from the "Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two" by Chamberlain and Doyle. However they list the vehicle has having the ammunition capacity of 30. Would the ammo have been stored separately (Powder and shot)? Looking at what you have, I can see no way for thirty shells to be stored on board, let alone shot and powder separately.

Mech, all i've read was that there were 10 rounds carried on board.

Tony lee

Tony I am starting to wonder how good a job Chamberlain and doyle actually did.

Even with interior info hard to come by why should that stop me from using common sense and bashing to my hearts content? "Show me the money" or the proof of my mistakes before you say it's wrong.

It says ARK Models on the box but this kit is ALAN thru and thru.  Therefore it needs a lot of help and TLC to bring the cream to the top.  Like replacing the wheels,tracks,gun and some of the details with PE.

And away we go:

Replaced the gun with the Dragon 15cm SIG 33 Infantry shooter. Much much better than what the kit provides:

My little helper is exhausted and had to take a break from the pressures of engineering.

Hard to get good help these days

Tony lee

I'm a little surprised that Dragon has yet to do one of these. Perhaps soon enough.

I have all the faith in the world that you'll bring this up to 21st century technology.

Nice work  happy dog learned  somthing today  good post.

Ron

I had to order some more early Gerry cans today,I only had one.

Later Gators

Tony lee

Great subject Tony, Ive always wanted to try one of these. When I seen the first post I ran upstairs to find my osprey on the Bisons/sig33 vehicles and there was nothing that you don't already know. I'm sure you will produce another excellent piece of work.

Terry.

Nice to see this one get off the ground Tony, looks like you're roaring along with it...just don't make us wait forever before you start painting it!

Filled some blank spots on the rear and found a place to store five rounds of ammo instead of underfoot on the floor.

Terry, I read everything I could find on these but there are a lot of blanks and questions not answered.

Now Bill you know I wouldn't do that to you.

Later Folks

Tony lee

nice work Tony,interesting subject.

Thanks Jersey

Tony lee

                                Hey Tony glad you found a spot for those ready rounds besides underfoot. Hate trippin over that stuff. Tight enough quarters already especially with Gunther hitting the knockwurst and Limburger again. I'm in till the end buddy. Seems I'm always eyeing this Alan kit up lately.

                                        As you say SPG's forever

                                                               Greg"Detailfreak"Rowley

Those two drill bits I didn't have finally came in today and I got the wheels drilled out to fit the kit axles.

Now I can fit  my Fruils.

Later Folks

Tony lee

Really nice Tony!       I like the TLC you are giving this kit.

  Always enjoy your posts!  Bison looking real good.

Pvt Mutt

 

My little helper is exhausted and had to take a break from the pressures of engineering.

Hard to get good help these days

Tony lee

HEY DOOG!!!

lol!

Tony, I gotta hand it to you. You consistently display a commitment to a standard of quality in your builds that is just textbook "commendable". You're like that soft-spoken guy with the nondescript stock bike who doesn't make a lot of noise or talk any smack but who kicks your @ss on the race track every time and cordially offers you a cold one afterward, lol. Your work is just reliably beautiful.

I say, don't knock yourself out trying to super-accurize the ammo stowage, These kinds of vehicle had removable floors, panels, etc, where they secreted away ammo, and you just can't know without some technical manual.

I have every confidence that your finished model won't need the added-aspect of that hyper-accuracy to blow us away.

No ... Tony got all informations concerning the ammo stowage AND he will be able to create the only right one ever made as a model kit ... isn't it so Tony ?

Or do I have said too much now ? Sorry ???

Best regards

I've been studying the info I got from L. Limprecht  "Melchior"  and brothers there is something that just don't add up.

There is a hand written letter dated Apr.19,1988 from an actual Bison II crew member that shines some light on some of the interior questions i'm sure that more than myself have ask.

One page from the letter:

Looking at the engine firewall from the fighting compartment he says there were two metal boxes mounted,one held four rounds and the other one held three for a total of seven. The other three rounds the Bison II carried were placed on the floor under the gun and covered. Two other armored vehicles trailed along with 25 more rounds each for resupply.

So the kit firewall is all wrong,no big problem with that, it would be a simple scratch build to fix.

BUT,and here's the rub, he shows that the trailing arm did NOT extend into the engine compartment,which never made sense to me anyway,but was hooked to the interior side of the firewall via of the towing eye.

This arrangement allowed the gun to be lifted out ,the wheels attached and put back into action if the motor carriage was out of service.  Boys and Girls there ain't enough room with the kit design to build it this way.

What do you think? Any suggestion????

Tony lee

Remember, the chassis of Panzer II was widened and extended by a 6th wheel ... however that's one and perhaps the initial question for FRANK-MODELLBAU / airmodel in the 80th of last century to stop reissue of his Bison II resin-made kit no. AM-1023 !

May be also a reason more for myself never assembled Bison II 

It means that Alan either a) got the dimensions of the gun wrong or b) got the dimensions of the interior/hull wrong or c) got both wrong. Given the fact that many of their other kits (like the Grille M) also suffered interior dimensional problems, it's not inconceivable that the entire interior is inaccurate. The hand-drawn note/letter confirms what Achtung Panzer indicated was the ammo layout but the Alan kit as-is doesn't allow for that to be properly replicated. Personally I don't see a way you can make it work so the question will come down to how much inaccuracy you wish to tolerate in the finished project.   

Dear Tony,

look into "Achtung Panzer" No.7, page 80-81 and esp. at drawing no. 114 !

Those may be better than my informations sent... I' ve forgotten to look into this publication by God ... I'm getting old and older....

So, Bill may have state the solution.

What's concerning measurements / scaling ??? Alan Ltd, hmmm may be a reason because it doesn't fix together.

Lothar,Bill already sent me that drawing but until you sent the letter I took it as just another surmise on their part.

Bill i've got a picture of a gun pulled from a Bison II and it looks just like the Dragon kit gun so the problem has to lie in the kit design. Looking at all the pictures i've got of the real thing, by eyeball the kit looks right from the exterior scale wise.

Heck,I don't know ???????

Tony lee