Overkill???

The best way to send a message is not to buy the kit.

Jim

Though to be fair i think all the panzer IV models, except the Ausf A (Hint Hint) are covered ain't they. Maybe not all by Dragon, but i am sure they are all covered.

But yes, in my veiw, trying to cover all the minor changes within Ausf runs is a tad over the top.

Hinksy

Hello Bish,

If I know that the Pz IV I'm looking at is a very early or late one I can look at it's Ausf designation and see how it would have differed from the design of other IV's.

The whole terminology of armoured vehicles can get complicated. Even though i had been redaing about German armour for years, i only begain to realise the way things work when i went into the battalions MILAN platoon back in 95. Part of that was AFV training and i begain to see the systems that difefrent countries used and that helped my understand the German system better.

Without trying to teach you to suck eggs, the term Ausf refers to the various models. In the British Army we use Mark, for example, Challenger Mk 1 and Mk 2. The Germans of course use letters, Ausf H, Ausf J for example. The new model designations are normally given when there is a major change in the vehicle, a new gun for example. But later in the war, little things changed often on a monthly basis, but on there own they weren't big enough to justfy a new Ausf letter

Of course, models are one thing, variants are another issue by themselves. The German system is in my view one of the most complicated i have come across, the same goes for their aircraft. 

persoanlly, i wouldn't get to worried about the early mid and late production, not if you are interesed in collecting as many versions as you can. Once i have a certain Ausf, i am happy with that. Not interested in getting vehicles with all the changes within that Ausf. The only exception i have made in this is with Tigers, and thats only because i want to get vehicle from every one of the Tiger battalions.

Hello Bish,

I'm sorry buddy but I didn't detect any sarcasm there the box clearly states 'Mid Production' and although I'm well aware that there were no early, middle or late Panzer IV's this addition of 'x-production' helps a lot for a relative newbie like me.

If I know that the Pz IV I'm looking at is a very early or late one I can look at it's Ausf designation and see how it would have differed from the design of other IV's.

I haven't been building long enough to know much about Ausf designations and how they affect Panzers (IV's inparticular as I am yet to build a true Panzer IV - I've only made builds that utilise the IV's chasis).

Cheers buddy,

Ben

Hinksy

 

I agree with you on that one, Bish

I'm slowly making my way through all the Panzers with the odd Allied build thrown in when I feel like some 'Green'!

I'll be happy with the early, mid and late options - it will make things a lot easier for the average modeller who just wants to show the development of a particular piece of armour throughout it's life without getting boged down in all the Ausf. variants.

I was trying to be sarcastic on that one. In reality there were now such terms as early middle or late. These are post war terms. They haven't been applied so much to Pz IV's before. And to be honest, building a tank from an early middle or late production run doesn't really reflect the changes the Germans made during production. These changes often happened monthly. So take the Tiger I for example. If you wanted to build every different version, you would have to build one from every month of its production. And rather than making it easier, it makes it harder. useing the Ausf designations is alot easier than getting bogged down in all the little changes made during each Ausf's production period.

Rob Gronovius

This just in, new Dragon PzKpfw IV Ausf G with markings of the tank Michael Wittmann walked by on his way to the chow line on Wednesday, March 11, 1944.

Actually that would be very innaccurate as March 11, 1944 was on a Saturday .

Bish

I like that Dragon have now decided that Pz IV's should be broken down into Early Mid and late production.

I agree with you on that one, Bish

I'm slowly making my way through all the Panzers with the odd Allied build thrown in when I feel like some 'Green'!

I'll be happy with the early, mid and late options - it will make things a lot easier for the average modeller who just wants to show the development of a particular piece of armour throughout it's life without getting boged down in all the Ausf. variants.

One more thing I'd like to see Dragon doing is starting to focus on a few Vietnam era kits. It was my interest in the 'Nam conflict that I learnt about early in High School that led to me becoming a '20th Century Hobby Historian' (I'm still learning, of course) and ultimately, into the world of Modelling, which has become an exciting part of my life now.

I'd like to see a decent ONTOS for a start. It's a piece of armour that I find 'mesmerising' and visually stunning - I tried the Academy version and hated it (it's an unfinished test bed for my airbrush now) so I'm now just hoping that Dragon or Tamiya releases a decent one sooner or later 

ATVB

Ben

Honestly, what manufacturer doesn't do this?

You don't think Tamiya's 1/32 Spitfire VIII and XVI are new-mold kits, do you? They borrow extensively from the IX. Same's true of so many of their 1/48 kits (P-51, P-47, A6M, Mosquito, Beaufighter, F4U-1, etc). 

Accurate Miniatures back in the day with the Allison 'Stangs, the Dauntless...

Hobby Boss with the F4F-3, F4F-4, FM-1, FM-2...

How many Shermans does Tasca make again?

Heck...Dragon with the Panzer III.

It's just that the Germans made so many incremental changes to the Pz.IV resulting in a ridiculous # of variations on more-or-less the same theme...

As long as people are willing to purchase,,,,   more power to them

Bish

Rob Gronovius:

This just in, new Dragon PzKpfw IV Ausf G with markings of the tank Michael Wittmann walked by on his way to the chow line on Wednesday, March 11, 1944.

 

O come on, now your just being silly.

 

Every one knows that was a Pz V

I know they are all "different", but it's more of a shell game at this point. It isn't really a true "new" kit. It's often a shuffle of new decals and existing sprues from various kits to give the illusion that they are releasing brand new kits.

Honestly, I think they would make more money if they made a standard kit and sold it for like... 5-10$ cheaper then they normally would, and just make the variant parts in addon kits you can use on their base kit, and charge like 5-10$ for it, to make up their costs.

I don't see a problem here.  All of the kits represent different production patches of the tank.  I don't think any of the releases have repeated the variant.  (not including the original DML PZ IV kits)

Rob Gronovius

This just in, new Dragon PzKpfw IV Ausf G with markings of the tank Michael Wittmann walked by on his way to the chow line on Wednesday, March 11, 1944.

O come on, now your just being silly.

Every one knows that was a Pz V

Rob Gronovius

This just in, new Dragon PzKpfw IV Ausf G with markings of the tank Michael Wittmann walked by on his way to the chow line on Thursday, March 11, 1944.

at 3:57 pm during a hailstorm.........

This just in, new Dragon PzKpfw IV Ausf G with markings of the tank Michael Wittmann walked by on his way to the chow line on Wednesday, March 11, 1944.

Yes, just like the million Shermans and Tigers. Sooner or later they have to run out of them.

Bish

 

Geist:

 

 

As others have mentioned, it's overkill fo sure but I would rather them do this, make money on it, and then use that money to develop new molds.

 

 

From what i can see, this is just what they are not doing. Ok, there comes a point, especially when doing things from the past, when you can't produce anything new. But i don't think that point has come yet and they just seem to be churning out kits that are variatons of somthing they already have.

That they are, but there has been a smattering of brand new molds released with all these variants of kits already released(RSO, M2/3 halftracks,M3 chassis, Opel Blitz, Neubaufahrzeug etc). Of course they're going to keep releasing kits that can be made with smallest cost to them.

Erik

Geist

 

As others have mentioned, it's overkill fo sure but I would rather them do this, make money on it, and then use that money to develop new molds.

From what i can see, this is just what they are not doing. Ok, there comes a point, especially when doing things from the past, when you can't produce anything new. But i don't think that point has come yet and they just seem to be churning out kits that are variatons of somthing they already have.

As others have mentioned, it's overkill fo sure but I would rather them do this, make money on it, and then use that money to develop new molds.

iraqiwildman

I wish they would concentrate on the M4 now.

Aren't they though? How many M4's have they released lately? I don't pay attention to M4's very much but it seems like there's always a Dragon Sherman on the recently released lists I look at.

Erik

I would rather them do this overkill, then not release hardly anything new, like Tamiya does.

I wish they would concentrate on the M4 now.

yes.............

Definitely a case of capitalizing on their initial investment in the molds as much as possible. While I'm a fan of German armor, I don't really need to build every single variant by production month but on the flip side, can recognize that there are those who do and this allows for that without resorting to resin AM, scratchbuilding, etc. Just because Pz IV nuts just don't have the same visibility as say the Tiger or Panther nuts doesn't mean they can't be catered to by DML in styrene.

interesting .

Ron

Anything worth killing is worth over-killing.

I forsee, by 2030 there will be more variations of the Panzer IV kit then there were invading the USSR

Maybe...

Dragon has two unstated goals; the first is to produce a figure set that eventually includes every German soldier from WW2 and secondly to reproduce every German tank by serial number.

Thats it, its the Germans fault for making changes to improve there tanks

And i like that dragon have now decided that Pz IV's should be broken down into Early Mid and late production.