the doog

I"m firmly in the camp that believes you can pretty much make any crappy track set look decent with proper painting and weathering. ANd I'll use what I have to--pins, glue, whatever--to "sag" a rubber band set if I have to.

I certainly agree with you Doog.

I build 1:72/76 armour and the choice of aftermarket for that scale is pretty limited. PE tracks are far too thin and resin offerings are often more work than the kit tracks.

With painting, weathering and care installing, even the Trumpeter rubber band tracks look good in place. I cut of the joins and sew them together as a matter of course now.

Dragons DS tracks are no different save they can be glued together!

The smallest link and length tracks I worked with are for the Italeri Pz1 Ausf. B. Now they were SMALL!

The 'jigs' that were made by the guys on the site were pretty simple. From memory, they were tow pieces of thin balsa wood, attached to another piece of wood with a gap between them. You just lay the tracks, guide horns down, and assemble each link as you go. I haven't tried it yet, i think theres several variations on these home made jigs. But they look like a handy thing to have.

I'm confused. I've never used a jig to assemble friuls and don't really see the point. Just make sure the pin holes are drilled out, stick two links together, insert pin, rinse and repeat. I usually assemble them in runs of four, then combine those to runs of eight, sixteen, etc, until I get the length I need. It's tedious, but not particularly difficult...

Deffinatly worth posting it, and who knows, once built up, it may well be easier to use than it looks. Might be worth doing a comparison between this and one of the jigs we have seen on here.

To be honest I'm with you Bish, I may make it up just to see how it works, but as this came from the "horses mouth" as it where I thought I'd make the offer to the people on here

I take it this is something you make yourself. Maybe its just me, but i can't make out how its meant to work. I have seen a couple of guys on here that have made their own jigs, and they seemed a lot simpler to make and use than this one. Or am i just being stupid.

at a show today and met the people from Fruil and got e sheet from them for a gig to make the tracks. Picture below, if anyone wants me to scan it so it will be 1:1 let me know

Phil

DoogsATX

When I built my AFV Club Achilles, I used liquid cement at first, like recommended. The things snapped. So I used CA. And then they snapped somewhere else (tracks were too small). I reglued them with CA, then used a piece of PE fret frame to brace the two links. It's held fine ever since.

Also build Tamiya's M4 Early Production which packs their new-style tracks. Had zero problems with them.

Forgot about that one. Yes, I had it too. No problems. Maybe it's something to do with the climate in SoCal?

When I built my AFV Club Achilles, I used liquid cement at first, like recommended. The things snapped. So I used CA. And then they snapped somewhere else (tracks were too small). I reglued them with CA, then used a piece of PE fret frame to brace the two links. It's held fine ever since.

Also build Tamiya's M4 Early Production which packs their new-style tracks. Had zero problems with them.

That's a bummer Stik. I'm pretty sure I used CA on my Cromwell and Pz III L tracks, so that might explain why they've held up well. I prime with black enamels and then spray Tamiya acrylics over them. I use mineral spirit washes too. I'm puzzled on yours. 

stikpusher

I have some builds of Italeri and Tamiya tanks that are nearing 30 years old with the old school vinyl tracks that are still going strong.

I was thinking that as I read your post. I have at least one kit that predates my marriage in my display cabinet, the very old Tamiya M4A3E8 Sherman motorized tank kit. The tracks on it are still fine and I am sure I painted them with Testors enamels. The kit was built at least 20 years ago.

I have not used the Dragon DS tracks. The breakage I had was on Tamiya and AFV Club new style gluable vinyl tracks. The tracks were glued with liquid cements, painted and installed. I had heard of issues involving enamel paints so I worked strictly with acrylics on them. On my Cromwell and YPR-65 they lasted longer. On my Centaur and some M113 replacement tracks, neither kit was even completed, both were still in the finishing process when the tracks broke, and in more than one place. It was as if the tracks dehydrated and contracted when I examined them after I found the breaks. They did not break at the gluing connection point. It was quite a shame because I really like those tracks and had good hopes for getting more of that type as replacement for older kit tracks. But after those experiences I will not buy them again and am reluctant to build the kits that I do have with those types of track  knowing that the kit tracks will need replacement. I am hoping that Dragon DS is better and longer lived. Too bad the Sherman DS tracks are so dang hard to get ahold of. None of the LHS seem to be able to get any when I have them ordered. I have some builds of Italeri and Tamiya tanks that are nearing 30 years old with the old school vinyl tracks that are still going strong.

Stik,just like Tigerman,I have 3 tanks with Dragon DS,no breaks,all over a year,I used super glue.

We're in the golden age of replacement tracks. There used to just be the vinyl tracks and if you were lucky, resin replacement strips that you had to heat and bend to fit the suspension. Some current vehicles like the M107/M110 US SPGs still only have that one option if you do not want to use the kit vinyl tracks.

In 1/72 scale, we've also got photo etched tracks. Very tricky to work with since you have to make three or four folds to create a run of tracks and then bend that around the suspension, trying not to damage the sprocket or idler wheels. Tried them on the Revell Cromwell, and was not satisfied, but with practice, I think I could make them look good. It's just an expensive form to practice.

Some of the nicest individual track links I've run across were resin snap together made by Model Victoria for the Italian WW2 tank and Semovente.

Dragon DS one piece tracks for the Allied vehicles (like the Sherman) are very well done. I'd take those over any other for ease and detail. It may be different for German armor, but they do look good on US style live track.

stikpusher

Link and length in concept are great. But in execution by various companies I find issues. Tamiya has been fairly good, ESCI and Italeri, less so, and Dragon about the same...

Indy links- very tedious and often frustrating, especially on some multi piece types such as US armor (Sherman thru Patton) or Kfz 251s... Again quality varies by maker- AFV Club Centurion were a breeze, HobbyBoss Cromwell/Centaur, fairly good, Dragons modern Soviet stuff acceptable.  Their M24/M46 links are an exercise in pateince to the extreme.

Gluable soft single length. Easy to apply, but none seem to last. All that I havebuilt have started to snap within a year or so, some quicker, some longer. Not happy with those at all.

Old School (heat joined) soft single length. some are horrid... too stiff, detail onone sideonly, etc.etc. Others are doable with little TLC, patience,and superglue if need be for sag.

I have yet to try magic tracks or fruils.

Your vinyl tracks broke within a year? I've never had that happen. I have the old Italeri Marder III and the tracks are still good. I have DS on my Dragon Elefant and Tamiya vinyls on my Pz III L, Abrams and Cromwell. I wonder if it's the glue your using?

I like Dragons magic track.  I've never had a problem with those.  And I've built quite a few of them.  Fruils are nice as well, but due the expense I only put them on a few models, the older Tamiya KV series for example.  I think that the new Tamiya length and link are great.  They fit only 1 way and if you get it right, they fit like a glove.  Some vinyl are good, I prefer them for the VVSS on M4s,  Dragon DS is good.  AFVs Sdkfz 251 vinyl are nice enough.  The hardest I've even done are the Bronco A-13 track.  Very small, difficult to clean up and the pattern varies every other track.  It takes a lot of time and patience.  Model Kasten are hard to get anymore, are they even made anymore?  But, when they came out they were nice to do.  I still have a few sets kicking around.

So far, I have no trackless models.  However...... I just finished the older Italeri RSO / 3.  I figured with the  new Dragon one about to find it's way into the pile, I should build one of the two I have.  The track on it BITE!.  Possibly just age.  I first used the old melt the track ends together trick.  Then one of them broke, not at the joint, but somewhere else.  So all I could do was staple them together, I thought that it's going to just sit on the shelf, whatever.  Then the other side broke the same way, then the other side broke again, somewhere else not at the joint and not at the stapled joint.  I almost judged the model with extreme prejudice.  Then I thought I'll do a mini diorama of it broken down in the mud beside a road or something.  Well, I calmed myself and restapled them back together and set it away from the work bench.  I didn't want to buy Fruils for it, I'd rather buy the new Dragon kit.  So it's built, on a shelf, all's well that ends well.  Even if the track stayed together, they don't fit well, too stiff, really need replacing.

Doug, not a big fan of Italeri tracks.

Link and length in concept are great. But in execution by various companies I find issues. Tamiya has been fairly good, ESCI and Italeri, less so, and Dragon about the same...

Indy links- very tedious and often frustrating, especially on some multi piece types such as US armor (Sherman thru Patton) or Kfz 251s... Again quality varies by maker- AFV Club Centurion were a breeze, HobbyBoss Cromwell/Centaur, fairly good, Dragons modern Soviet stuff acceptable.  Their M24/M46 links are an exercise in pateince to the extreme.

Gluable soft single length. Easy to apply, but none seem to last. All that I havebuilt have started to snap within a year or so, some quicker, some longer. Not happy with those at all.

Old School (heat joined) soft single length. some are horrid... too stiff, detail onone sideonly, etc.etc. Others are doable with little TLC, patience,and superglue if need be for sag.

I have yet to try magic tracks or fruils.

I really like Dragon's DS tracks for Allied armor, noticed you did not includes these in your list.

I"m pretty content with using indy link tracks from DML or Dragon. I don't much care for rubber bands, and especially the insulting tracks that come with most Italeri tracks--I'll replace those if it doesn't cost me too much, or can be done without using Friuls, which I've never used.

I"m firmly in the camp that believes you can pretty much make any crappy track set look decent with proper painting and weathering. ANd I'll use what I have to--pins, glue, whatever--to "sag" a rubber band set if I have to.

Gamera - I agree with you re: rubber bands for taut-style tracks like the allies ran. In fact, for VVSS Shermans, I MUCH prefer a well-sorted rubber band. The way the track's designed, it's very hard to find an indy design that isn't a complete nightmare to assemble. The Friuls aren't bad (and they're a lot cheaper than other friuls, too), but IMO they don't bring anything to the game over Dragon DS or Tasca's rubber bands. 

I also think you can pull off rubber bands pretty well on something like the Tiger, where the track lies right on the wheels. 

And for fixing broken rubber bands, you can use pieces of PE fret to trap the links together, then tuck the fix in an out-of-sight location. 

tigerman

anthony2779:

 

Kentucky Colonel:

 

The tracks that came with my M1A2 was broken so I went with the AFV Clubs tracks and they fit and look  great.

 

 

Yes,I also used the AFV tracks for the Abrams,they were excellent,but don't use an enamel wash,it made them real brittle and several of the pins broke off.

I really like Friuls,but pricey,and I know a lot of people hate them,but I like the Dragon DS tracks also.

The Tamiya 1/48 L+L tracks were also real easy to use for me

 

I used the DS track once and loved them. Yes, they're not as nice as the indies, but they save peace and mind.

Since the skirts cover the top run I'd just staple the rubber band tracks together and make sure the repaired area is hidden.

Guess lazy modeling like this is why I don't win contests

Best aftermarket I've used: the Vision Models set for Japanese Type 97 and Type 3 tanks. One piece links and they snap together! Vision claims they're 'workable' but I just snapped them together, put 'em on the tank, pushed and pulled so I got the track sag I wanted, and slapped a little liquid cement on them to lock them in that position.

Worst: AFV Club set for the M26 and M46. Each link is four pieces which are easy to assemble if you have four hands and a couple of tentacles. They're supposed to snap together but kept breaking till I used a pin vise to drill every single one out to get a slightly bigger hole for the pins. Each had a big fat injection pin mark too that needed to be sanded down. Frankly when doing tight track runs like most American tanks I don't think rubber band tracks look at all bad- they just don't work that well for loose track runs like the Germans and Soviets.

anthony2779

 

Kentucky Colonel:

 

The tracks that came with my M1A2 was broken so I went with the AFV Clubs tracks and they fit and look  great.

 

 

Yes,I also used the AFV tracks for the Abrams,they were excellent,but don't use an enamel wash,it made them real brittle and several of the pins broke off.

I really like Friuls,but pricey,and I know a lot of people hate them,but I like the Dragon DS tracks also.

The Tamiya 1/48 L+L tracks were also real easy to use for me

I used the DS track once and loved them. Yes, they're not as nice as the indies, but they save peace and mind.

RESlusher

Phil,

I like the color on those tracks!  What did you use?

Tracks are probably my weakest area and far as armor goes.  It's good to see somebody doing it right! 

 

That's the colour they came to be honest. I think they still need paint as they look a bit to "clean" to me

Phil

I'm looking to start the Trumpeter up-armored BMP-3 in the next couple of weeks,  It's got indy link tracks with separate guide horns.  These look to be a major PITA!  Can anybody vouch for 'em or offer an AM solution?  The Fruils look to be a little outside my price range.

Kentucky Colonel

The tracks that came with my M1A2 was broken so I went with the AFV Clubs tracks and they fit and look  great.

Yes,I also used the AFV tracks for the Abrams,they were excellent,but don't use an enamel wash,it made them real brittle and several of the pins broke off.

I really like Friuls,but pricey,and I know a lot of people hate them,but I like the Dragon DS tracks also.

The Tamiya 1/48 L+L tracks were also real easy to use for me

I rank in the same order.  I have both Harper Casting’s and Fruil’s set of LVT individual link track, and both seem tediously time consuming fiddly but, a far reach better than the AFV resin link and length and wholly superior to what arrives as Italeri’s attempt with rubber track.

Down with L&L!!!

Phil,

I like the color on those tracks!  What did you use?

Tracks are probably my weakest area and far as armor goes.  It's good to see somebody doing it right! 

The tracks that came with my M1A2 was broken so I went with the AFV Clubs tracks and they fit and look  great.

I have Bronco's for two Shermans and have seen them for Panthers. I have done a set of AFV's for the later Tiger and they are very similar to the Bronco's but a little bit more expensive. I didnt add them as it was just one set and I forgot I'd put them just behind the Fruils as they aren't as flexible, photo below to let you see them

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/:550:0]

Phil