Question on Italeri's Tiger I Ausf.E (tp)

Richard:

So, you want to keep the bin and scratchbuild the hatch...?

That seems like the most difficult way to go, because it's a flat hatch on a round surface, so it would not be a simple disc of uniform thickness. You would have to either thin it down carefully to fit the curvature, or make a perfect hole in the turret wall.

Here are  the diagrams that you need:  http://tiger1.info/EN/EscapeHatch.html

You could then have to build the tank as a beat-up vehicle that had lost its exhaust shields. No real problem there.

David

Like I said, the one brought in to AMPS chapter meeting was done beautifully. It will look like a Tiger when built.

"What is plastic compared to the hand which wields it?"

Byrden,

By all means, this is a modelling forum and i appreciate any and all input to help me convert this baby into something "kursky" 

You say the bin won't fit if i would scratch the escape hatch? I was kind of planning to use the kit offered bin and add the PE braces.....

Stik,

During my initial research i came across this difference in appearance right away. It is going to be one of the more prominent features that i will have to scratch....

Satch-ip,

Ofcourse you are absolutely right and kind of you to say. The thing is that i usually build my models OOB just for fun and not to count rivets too much. This particular kit however is also meant for me to get more familiar with kitbashing and use of PE. To me it seems that converting this initial production Tiger into an early production one is doable and should offer me lots of opportunity to work on afforementioned skills.

Whatever i am not able to change i will just leave as is without feeling bad about it

In fact, i am receiving so much help and interesting views that i think i am going to do a crossover from the Ostfront GB to the armor forum here. Hope you guys won't mind as i am going to need the input and kick in the behind to get this done

Richard

Kermit, don't sweat it.  If it looks like a Tiger and you are satisfied with your effort, then that is all that counts.  Enjoy your hobby. 

satch

this circular hatch at about the 4 o'clock position

On the initial production Tigers there was a pistol port the same as on the opposite side in this position. This is what the Italeri kit has.

The mantlet can be fixed with modelling skills; after all, that's why we are in this hobby!

Let me muse about ways to make it a reasonably accurate Tiger. 

There is no hatch on the turret rear, and I think that would be fairly difficult to make, so let's stick with the two pistol ports.

That rules out the use of the stowage bin; this kind came along after the hatch, in fact it was designed to fit beside the hatch.

So you could model a Tiger that had its bin removed temporarily.. like this one:

or you could source a bin from a Pz.3 kit. Those were the first bins used on Tigers.

The exhaust shields are the Africa kind, as I said, but they didn't come into use till January 1943, so you could go without them. The Tiger in the photo above didn't have them.

If you want me to follow up this train of thought with more details, just say so....

David

At Kursk, most of the Tigers had the fiefel air cleaners in photos so I say leave those on. If you are gonna get a PE set, the later fenders and exhaust covers you need should be included there. The other changes will be to move the headlights onto to upper hull, and to alter the right pistol port on the turret into a circular hatch. Something easily done with some sheet styrene. The other gigs like you said are easily solved by the modeler with a knife or sanding stick. There are plenty of pics to be found to show what you need to do.

Stik,

Thank you for your insights... it makes me feel slightly better and more confident i can still pull off a Kursk cat with this kit In fact, it may be the authors mistake but Osprey publishings book "Tiger I Heavy Tank 42-45" does show a color plate with a Kursk era Tiger with the Fievel filters attached..... But i think i will omit them.

Byrden,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that down I really appreciate it! The list is impressive but i have to say (and this is totally personal ofcourse) that at least half of them aren't really alarming to me. The ones that do look like they can be solved with some cutting and sanding away or adding some styrene.

The one that worries me most is the pic of the mantlet... Sure hope mine will not look like that

Another issue that i will simply have to accept as is is the towing cable arrangement. I have seen the pictures of the layouts and i see what you mean. Not easily solved so i think ill have to let that one go.

All in all it is maybe not accurate for contest purposes but accurate enough for this froggie Thank you again for your information!

Now,.....

By omitting the fievel filters i think it will look enough like an early tiger to be done in a kursk livery? I believe the fenders of the tigers in africa and at kursk were different too but i dont think italeri made that distinction.... and the PE set should have standard fenders...

Anything important i have missed to "un-DAK" it?

Richard

The biggest problem is that it's crude. Check the photos in this review:

http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/member_albums/52743/tiger.jpg

The mantlet doesn't sit level. There's a joint all the way around the upper turret wall, this guy must have worked hard to make it invisible but he failed -see the last photo. The glacis plate doesn't sit right, according to this guy:

http://www.track-link.net/reviews/k551

Concerning general accuracy, , I can see these issues:

The cupola slits are too wide and are rotated from their true position; one of them should be front center. The real cupola didn't rotate.

The front edges of the turret walls - visible in the gap behind the mantlet - aren't a scale 80mm thick.

There are strange little rings on the front towing hooks, they didn't really exist.

The turret has 4 spare track holders on each side. In face there were 5 on the left and 2 on the right.

The turret bin is the standard type, tapering outwards. This type never had support beams on the side.

Concerning accuracy to represent Tigers of a specific period, I can see these issues:

The exhaust shields are of the Africa type used only by s.Pz.Abt. 501. Most of the kit agrees with this, but:

The tracks have cleats on their surface. These didn't appear until October 1943 so they are wrong for this kit.

The Tigers of this unit had a wider turret bin with parallel sides, so the bin is wrong. But it did have side supports.

The handle on the glacis was a field modification only seen on the Tiger in Bovington Museum, so it's not needed.

There are 3 rods stored on the roof each side of the turret; but in these Tigers the rods were longer and there were only 2 on the left side.

These African Tigers didn't have spare track holders on the turret at all.

The cable stored on the left side of the hull is arranged according to a pattern not seen until much later. These Tigers had more clips in a very different layout.

The rear mudguards are of a later type, only the front ones are correct for these Tigers.

=========

David

Kermit drop me a PM I have plenty of spare eastern front tiger decals

Andrew

I do believe it is possible to model a Kursk Tiger from this kit. The SS Panzer Corps recieved some of the initial production Tigers before the Battle of Kharkov after Stalingrad in early 1943. More than likely some if not most survived to see service at Kursk. If not it would not be too hard to modify it the an early production Tiger that was the mainstay of the various Tiger units at Kursk. As far as the DAK logos go, i dont believe that either of the Tiger Battalions that deployed to North Africa ever wore that insignia.

As far as the kit inself, I have seen it built up mainly OOB at our local AMPS chapter meeting with only some Fruils to replace the kit link & length tracks, and a metal barrel. It was beautiful and sure looked like a Tiger, whatever warts the kit may have.

I have that kit in my stash and will be building it up shortly for a Tiger GB our AMPS chapter is doing. It is indeed an initial production kit with the "tropical" Fiefel Air Filter system.

Tropical does make sense.... It offers markings for a tiger in tunisia and one on sicily so that could very well be it... Was kinda hoping to make a Kursk tiger out of it but i take it this is not possible? Also the decal sheet doen't have any DAK logo's on it...

Reading some reviews i did come across some negative talk but mostly yacking about the age of the kit and how it could use aftermarket items such as PE and welding lines and such.

Would love to get a list of inconcistencies so i am prepared

Richard

The (tp) designation wasn't used by the Germans, but it probably means 'tropical'.

For what it's worth, this kit is inaccurate. I could list its problems.

David

If it is an early production Tiger I the (tp) may stand for tropical, as in the fitting for the Fiefel dust filter system. This is only a SWAG but it makes a little sense.

Richard,

Thank you for those kind words.

wbill76 would know this one--no, it wouldn't be anything with Porsche; more likely it's a German abbreviation having to do with "production".

I don't know if the early production is as good as the late, but I'm sure it is. The nice thing was, it was an Italeri--which is notorious for their crappy tracks--but it has indy tracks! It sure builds up nice!

Good luck with your build!

Doog,

That's a real looker right there. In fact my tiger is an early one... rubber roadwheels, no zimm, candle smoke dispensers....

I am slapping on a eduard PE set and RB models barrel hoping it will look half as good as yours... I was just wondering about the weird abbreviation (tp). Best i can come up with is porsche turret...

Richard 

Don't know about that abbreviation, but that's a rockin' kit!

Is it the one with the optional zimmerit? If so, that zimm's the bomb--just sand it down thinner, and it's amazingly easy to glue on a chip and damage. I had a ball with this kit. I made it into Wittman's Normandy Tiger.

Sorry about the weird notes--I think I was showing how to fix the tracks at one point?