Vietnam dirt color question that needs to be asked...

Interesting questions. I am a Viet Nam vet, and yes the red dirt is common, but you also see a lot of variety in colors in different  areas.  As for tactics, there really weren’t many choices for armor. Support of fire bases was common, but so was the so called “search and destroy” mission. But then I was always looking down on it from a helicopter gunship J

I do recall reading of sigificant differences in all US and Aussie tactics in Vietnam. I would have to pull out my reading materials on the subject to be more specific though. I suppose that Aussie tactics would have a basis on their employment of armor in the SW Pacific in WWII in heavy jungle terrain such as New Guinea and Borneo.

Thanks Stik, a big help. 

Was there a difference in tactics between Aussie armor and American during the war? It seems most of the pics I see of US tanks are in support of fire bases on hilltops, not deep within the jungle as are most of the photos I see of Australian Centurions. The thick jungle doesn't seem a suitable fighting environment for a tank as large as that...

Yes it's supposed to be OD. When I started my M113FSV a couple years back I asked what color were Aussie AFVs in Vietnam. I was told by an Aussie member here (cant recall who at this point) that they started out in OD 34087 and later were switched to Medium Green 34102. Of course the tropical environment will give that sun/rain fade over the years.

Thanks for the input and great references...and even the geology lesson! It took me a while to find a decent picture of an Australian Centurion in action in Vietnam....

That thing is dirty! Definitely isn't that red clay either. This may be the ticket I'm looking for. But at this point, I need to hijack my own thread and change the subject.....

What color is the base coat on that tank, under all the grime? Would you say that its close to OD? Definitely looks scuffed and faded on the upper surfaces....any insight?

redleg12

Yes the reddish clay color is the "standard". There is always variation and as Roy stated look at some pictures. To the north in the mountians it was still red but more greyish red. Having a good reddish base pigment like MIG Vietnam Earth is a great place to start. Then mix in some tones

Rounds Complete!!

this famous photo taken in the inland I Corps area is a great example of the other earth tones

Where I live this type of soil is common. Much like Vietnam, Nova Scotia is a ancient 'mud' delta of sorts. 

Can mail you a sample yet a picture says a thousand words.

My picture is a construction site after a rain, obviously Han's pictures are during dry season. The soil when dry gets really dusty and clings to everything. This leaves a lot of options for weathering either dry red earth or dusty red soil.

To the north in the mountians it was still red but more greyish red.

I had a Vietnam Vet Section Chief back in 78/79 that was a young Marine gunbunny in Vietnam, 68-69, and he remarked on several occasions that the red clay at Ft. Benning reminded him of the Central Highlands in 'Nam, specifically Khe Sanh...  There's also a fair amount of red clay in the Mekong Delta, acording a 9th ID friend of mine... I don't know where the Aussie units operated though.

This and the following photo were taken near Pleiku, South Vietnam, Republic of...

Road leading from Ops to the perimeter gate and "Indian Country":

 There's also The Red Clay Newsletter that's published by the KheSanh Veterans Association. 

There was quite a heated & running debate about this exact subject a while back (within the last 2 years or so) that was quite interesting & informative - it got me reading & I'm an aircraft guy!

I think it started with a dio which possibly included some huts & such like, it may have been connected to our friend Model Maniac, but I'm not entirely certain. I would use the search function to find it, but haven't really found the patience for it since the last forum overhaul........

Yes the reddish clay color is the "standard". There is always variation and as Roy stated look at some pictures. To the north in the mountians it was still red but more greyish red. Having a good reddish base pigment like MIG Vietnam Earth is a great place to start. Then mix in some tones

Rounds Complete!!

I know this may be a bit over the edge and technical, but in my geology and soils classes in college they did talk about the red laterite soils which are the common soil type for tropical areas. So you can find these soils in tropical areas like Africa, India, South East Asia, the Malay Archipeligo and even the Caribbean. Laterite soils can be very deep, which helped the VC with their tunneling. If the VC had to tunnel through rock, they wouldn't have been able to create those tunnels that they made. These soils are commonly 15 to 25 feet deep, in some areas they reach even greater depths. Our temperate soils may only be 2 to 3 feet in depth before hitting bedrock, usually not past 6 feet. the red color comes from the iron oxides commonly found in them. The article below may be a bit technical for some.

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laterite,  soil layer that is rich in iron oxide and derived from a wide variety of rocks weathering under strongly oxidizing and leaching conditions. It forms in tropical and subtropical regions where the climate is humid. Lateritic soils may contain clay minerals; but they tend to be silica-poor, for silica is leached out by waters passing through the soil. Typical laterite is porous and claylike. It contains the iron oxide minerals goethite, HFeO₂; lepidocrocite, FeO(OH); and hematite, Fe₂O₃. It also contains titanium oxides and hydrated oxides of aluminum, the most common and abundant of which is gibbsite, Al₂O₃·3H₂O. The aluminum-rich representative of laterite is bauxite.

And perhaps because not all items are Vietnam specific if one does not see or can not read the bumper codes. A basic M113 or M151 could be mistake for being in Germany, Korea, or Dominican Republic in basic Dark OD and browner tone dust/mud. But the reddish stuff has come to be identified with Vietnam.  It adds context due to the popular perception. Yes other tone muds exist in Vietnam just like everywhere else (at Ft Polk we had various mud tones in different areas including that red stuff), but it is the reddish tones that burned into the popular conscience.

I think that myth persists because of laziness.  I love looking at period photos.  I certainly have seen many many simple earth tones -- w/o the red earth -- on Vietnam war vehicles/soldiers.  Just print out a photo and place it next to your M41 or M113 at your next contest and declare "No red dust!!"

T26E4

As for cliched like muzzle tube blackening, at least red dust on Vietnam vehicles has basis in reality.

Touche, haha!

Any how, thanks for the response. I guess part of what I'm asking is if you see a model from the Vietnam era that does not sport a weathered scheme of orange dust...does it seem less "Vietnamish" to you? I think there are a lot of things in modeling (blackening of the barrel for instance ) that people expect to see and the model may be detracted from should that detail be missing. Do you all think this is true of Vietnam War vehicles?

It depends on where the vehicle saw action.  Indeed, the red colored dust was prevalent in the Mekong delta areas.  But the military was engaged on many fronts.  Find a picture -- and mimic.

As for cliched like muzzle tube blackening, at least red dust on Vietnam vehicles has basis in reality.