Canadian leopard A4 kits?

gunner_chris

Canada also deployed the Leopard 1's initially to the 'stan.  The upgrade to Leopard 2's was one of the easiest solutions as we needed to support combat operations while training up the armoured corp.  There was a phase where MBT's were viewed as a cold war thing and emphasis was placed on wheeled vehicles.

 

Luckily someone got an attitude adjustment and we are getting and keeping tanks.

Thank zombie Jeebus we did get them. They helped us do our job when a LeoC2 would have had issues. How do I know? I was a commander of one.

As for the OP, Perfect Scale Modellbau has a conversion kit, it's pricey -

http://www.perfect-scale.de/Conversion-Kits-1---35/Leopard-2A4-M-Can-w--Barracuda-Camouflage.html

Canada also deployed the Leopard 1's initially to the 'stan.  The upgrade to Leopard 2's was one of the easiest solutions as we needed to support combat operations while training up the armoured corp.  There was a phase where MBT's were viewed as a cold war thing and emphasis was placed on wheeled vehicles.

Luckily someone got an attitude adjustment and we are getting and keeping tanks.

The Abrams is a multifuel engine. When we got them in 1989, we used diesel until we switched over to JP8. The US Army, Marine Corps, Austrailian Army and the three Arab nations I listed all operate the Abrams in the desert without problems. Funny a country with no organic desert would think desert operations a hinderance to a tank used by five countries who have deserts and use the tanks routinely in said environment.

Without a doubt, cost and familiarization of the series were the main factors. I understand that originally the Canadians went with the Leo 1 because they operated in Germany and was cheaper and easier to get repair parts than to compete with the US or UK supply chain for their tanks.

Hand-me-down Leopard 2 tanks are still formidable main battle tanks.

Guys, looks like you got this right.  I googled for answers... I love doing research as part of modeling.  Here's what I found... answers from a former Canadian tanker.  I thought his answers made sense like yours.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rob Gronovius

deafpanzer:

 

 

As to why the Canadians went with the Leopard  2 over the Abrams, I do not know. They chose the Leopard 1 over the British Chieftan or US M60A1/A3 during the Cold War. You'd wonder that they would have chosen the Challenger or Abrams over the Leo because of close ties to the British Commonwealth or their US neighbors. Abrams tanks are made right across the Great Lakes from Canada.

It seems I recall, and I could be wrong, that the Abrams was rejected because due to it's turbine engine it is a bit more maintenance intensive than the Leopard, plus needs a bigger logistics "tail" to keep that thirsty engine supplied with fuel....as I said, i could be wrong, and maybe Gino could share better insight if I am.

the doog

The dudes that I talked to were training on German A6's and going to Afghanistan to pick up their own Canadian Leo II's. Not sure of the model, but I would have assumed that they were picking up A6's if they were training on them?

The loaner tanks in A-stan are Leopard 2A6M tanks from Germany. The purchased tanks from Holland are Leopard 2A4 tanks except for the 20 going back to the Germans. Those will be A6s. The ex-Dutch tanks will undergo modernization and overhaul and be called Leopard 2A4M CAN (for Canadian).

So the Canadian training in Germany would be training on the 2A6s because they would be serving on A6s in theater, but once the war wraps up, Canada's entire armor force will be the refurbished Dutch 2A4s.

As to the 20 "borrowed" 2A6M tanks currently in A-stan, they are going back to the manufacturer in Germany for rebuild, overhaul and modernization. After that, I do not know what is supposed to happen to those specific tanks since Germany will get 20 tanks back from the ex-Dutch stocks. I did not think the Canadians were keeping those because I thought they wanted their entire fleet "pure" of only one type of Leo.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

deafpanzer

Great information here... am always learning something.  Loved the video clip!

Now you guys have me wonder if US Gov't has sold any of M1 Abrams to other countries?  Why can't Canada buy the Abrams tanks from its neighbor America since we are alot closer unless our defense contractors are under heavy restrictions not to sell any M1 to other countries at this moment?

 

 

The US has sold M1A1 and M1A2 to other countries. Egypt manufactured M1A1s and Austrailia bought 58 M1A1AIM  tanks. I know Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq all use the Abrams, either the A1 or A2. Egypt has both the M1A1 and M1A2.

As to why the Canadians went with the Leopard  2 over the Abrams, I do not know. They chose the Leopard 1 over the British Chieftan or US M60A1/A3 during the Cold War. You'd wonder that they would have chosen the Challenger or Abrams over the Leo because of close ties to the British Commonwealth or their US neighbors. Abrams tanks are made right across the Great Lakes from Canada.

Great information here... am always learning something.  Loved the video clip!

Now you guys have me wonder if US Gov't has sold any of M1 Abrams to other countries?  Why can't Canada buy the Abrams tanks from its neighbor America since we are alot closer unless our defense contractors are under heavy restrictions not to sell any M1 to other countries at this moment?

The dudes that I talked to were training on German A6's and going to Afghanistan to pick up their own Canadian Leo II's. Not sure of the model, but I would have assumed that they were picking up A6's if they were training on them?

I heard that we bought 100 A4's from the Netherlands and have borrowed 20 A6's from Germany.

deafpanzer

Canada got tanks?

They have less than a US battalion's worth of operational tanks (40) and a duplicate amount used for training units for a grand total of about 100 tanks. This total includes the tanks used to train soldiers at their armor school and the ones used to train mechanics and recovery operations. So the lion's share of their tank force won't be deployable tanks.

They "borrowed" 20 Leopards from Germany to use in Afghanistan with the agreement that they would return the tanks in the same state as they received them. Sort of a Lend-Lease type of agreement.

Now here's where it gets interesting. Canada is buying 100 tanks (which includes 8 Leo-based recovery vehicles) from the Netherlands who just deactivated their tank force. The Canadians will convert and return 20 of those former Dutch tanks to the Germans since the A-stan deployed tanks will be fairly war weary when the Canadians are done with them.

Canada deploys their tanks two squadrons (20 tanks) at a time. A Canadian squadron is the US equivalent of a company. A US tank company is 14 tanks. Basically, the Vermont Army National Guard has a larger tank organization than the Canadian Army.

WHen I was staying in Bad Arolsen a few years ago, a Canadian tanker team was staying in the same hotel. They heard I was into tanks, and took me to Wolfhagen Panzer base (before it closed) where they were training on the Leopard 2 MBT. It was cool as hell! I got to climb around them and go in them.

Here's the post from that day--this might interest you.

LEOPARD IIA6s @ Wolfhagen

Thats and awsome video, thanks for sharing

Yep, and some pretty awesome ones at that...here's a cool video showing the Leopard 2A6M CAN in action in A-stan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pERJTfdgrjg

Canada got tanks?

I think there are only two current Leopard 2A4 kit manufacturers out there. One is the Italeri kit which was reboxed by Revell in some variation. The other is the Hobby Boss kit which has received some rants regarding accuracy. The old OOP Esci and Heller Leos are best forgotten.

Y-Modelle of Germany was supposed to be making a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN conversion for the Hobby Boss kit, but that's all I know about it.

This site is the place to track information about available model Leopard variants. http://www.onepointed.com/dan/model/Leopard_Lists/2-kit/