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A39 Tortoise question

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  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: T-34 Hunting
A39 Tortoise question
Posted by TheWildChild on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 2:25 PM

I saw the page in the most recent Fine Scale about Meng Model's A39 Tortise, and i had never (that i remember) heard of it before so i poked around in books and online to find some info on it. There was one feature that seemed familiar on it but i couldnt pinpoint what it was, and then i realised the tracks look very similar to the tiger and king tiger tracks. I then searched to try and find out if there was any relation between the two (ahhhhhh the joy of having a mind that likes to know the answers to all the useless questions lol) but could find nothing. anybody know if the British used German tracks or track designs on the Tortoise?

regards, Logan

1/35 XM77  "Sledgehammer", 1964 Chevy Impala Derby Car

Whats next? Aircraft for Ground Attack Group Build

"I dont just tackle to make a play, I tackle to break your will." -Ray Lewis

"In the end, we're all just chalk lines on the concrete, drawn only to be washed away"- 5 Finger Death Punch

"Ahh, my old enemy.......STAIRS"- Po, Kung Fu Panda

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Cat Central, NC
Posted by Bronto on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 3:35 PM

No, they were not German tracks or designs.

  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: Toronto Ontario
Posted by Hellcat man on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 3:49 PM

For give me If i am wrong, but looking at these  pictures I can see some similarities between the tracks and i believe the Germans may have inspired the allies 

 ALEX ZELYK

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Cat Central, NC
Posted by Bronto on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:16 PM

So then by that logic, any steel track was inspired by the Germans?  the British had all steel tracks on many of their WWII tanks.  Look at the US T-66 track on an M-4 - it also looks similar, does that mean it was inspired by a German design?

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 8:20 PM

Yeah I think the similarity is just coincidence more than anything. 

My jaw dropped open when I saw the kit right inside the cover of my new FSM. Will have to get one of these for sure, only will wait a year or two and try to catch one on sale.

Cliff

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 9:50 PM

Bronto

So then by that logic, any steel track was inspired by the Germans?  the British had all steel tracks on many of their WWII tanks.  Look at the US T-66 track on an M-4 - it also looks similar, does that mean it was inspired by a German design?

The British had all steel tracks on all their indigenous tank designs. Most every country did. Only the US had had widespread use of rubber in tank track designs. At first glance, to my eye, the track design bears far more resemblance to that of the Centurion whose design work started at roughly the same time in 1943. Of course, there were also probably design influences from the Russian T-34 and KV tanks as well as the German Tiger and Panther tanks for the concept of wide tracks to lessen ground pressure.

 

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  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 10:14 PM

One of the lesser known things about German track development is that they originally experimented with rubber tracks (think of designs like those seen on the 250/251 half-track family) on tanks but found that they couldn't stand up to the wear and tear at any kind of spped due to the weight of the vehicles and limitations of the designs. As stik points out, the use of steel "skeleton" tracks was a common design feature in virtually every design of the period. Once you start dealing with tracks of a certain size/width (driven in turn by the size/weight of the vehicle and ground pressure resulting), there's going to be inevitable similarities just due to the physics involved in the  casting of the links and the traction required to produce them and have them work effectively.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 10:22 AM

I don't think that it's in any way unreasonable to assume that engineers and designers of the time period had a look around at what everybody else was doing and said "Hey, check out what Hans and Franz used on THEIR big baby!" The Germans themselves designed the Panther after the T-34; which was itself designed from a British design, the Christie.

It's just like all the darned cars seems to look the same today. People use what works, and copy and imitate everywhere.

What Bill said also makes a lot of sense, but then again, he knows literally everything about tanks, so quite naturally, it would. Wink

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Grand Bay, New Brunswick ,Canada
Posted by MECHTECH on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 10:29 AM

UM Doog.....never thought I would ever have to correct you, but Walter Christie was an American and his design was American before showing it to the British or the Russians. WOW did I just do that?

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:11 PM

MECHTECH

UM Doog.....never thought I would ever have to correct you, but Walter Christie was an American and his design was American before showing it to the British or the Russians. WOW did I just do that?

lol, thanks, MECHTECH, and of course, you're right--I make these half-informed pronouncements from time to time when I"m in a hurry and haven't finished my first cup of coffee in the morning. Big Smile

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:17 AM

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_UAUs3GqkjuIQL8uwVwUu6mJZoH197UhpZ_iRwhtuu1oLIJ-E

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: T-34 Hunting
Posted by TheWildChild on Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:43 PM

if you look at the Tiger I and Tiger II tracks and the A39s, they do look very similar to each other, wheather or not anybody else believes so i do think the british used german track designs as a basis for the track design on the A39, steel tracks were used by many countries but you cannot deny the uncanny resemblance between the two here. Bronto  yes the Germans, British, and Russians all used metal tracks, but none of them looked even close to as similar as these do...i mean the raised cleats look nearly identical to the Tiger I tracks.

1/35 XM77  "Sledgehammer", 1964 Chevy Impala Derby Car

Whats next? Aircraft for Ground Attack Group Build

"I dont just tackle to make a play, I tackle to break your will." -Ray Lewis

"In the end, we're all just chalk lines on the concrete, drawn only to be washed away"- 5 Finger Death Punch

"Ahh, my old enemy.......STAIRS"- Po, Kung Fu Panda

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