Group Builds

As one of the other members that got kicked around...I mean kicked it around with Shermie, I agree with this and think it would be a good idea. If we can get Dave to agree to a new forum for the expired builds I think it would be a good idea. The straglers could still post to the group build, but in the other forum. I think we'll get more participation in each build and better work if we don't have people trying to do 6 group builds at a time. I know I found I can't do mor ethan 1 or 2 at a time and get anything done.

So let us know what the rest of y'all think!

Eric

I definitely agree!

Sounds good!

Robert-

I like the idea of letting a group build 'expire' and be placed somewhere else, like in it's own designated area. This idea should work for the entire web-site, not only just Armor.Two group builds at any given sounds like a good number. We need to remember participating in one is voluntary.

My two cents!

Glenn

I must admit, I felt a little funny about posting another GB (M1) , seeing how many there were already and with the towed gun GB being in the time frame we had discussed. but we had already discussed it in november, really, I wasn't going to do it, but then I saw a few posts that people where still expecting it, so I kinda had to do it.

1. I must agree with you on most points, especially #6.

2. I say 2 GBs active, but with the possibility of 3 (as in above circumstances) but I guess if there's a discussion thrread before each GB that would eliminate that probably

3. I also say that we have 2 thread boxes on a page
first the regular one with the 20 updating thread
the 2nd to contain all the GBs. Personally I think that that's all we need to eliminate the clogging of the thread page

4. I would say 3 weeks before the start date it should be stickied, so as to give people time to get: kits, AM, PE, etc.
I agree with 2 weeks after, to retire it.

5. to determine the next GB I would suggest that choices get nominated (preferably all of them from different areas of armor) until there is a total of 5. those choices then get put in a poll to get voted on.


my thoughts on the subject

Sounds good to me. I would like to participate in more builds but to many going at once tends to eliminate participation.

Glenn - couldn't agree more that this would benefit the entire site, not just Armour. So I've posted an invite to the A/C Forum to come participate in this dialogue.

Chris - your point #3 intigues me a little. Is what you're suggesting with this a subfolder of each forum entitled Group Builds ..... and in that subfolder is where they would reside for their term. That way they're still part of the individual forum, but kept seperate to a degree.

Robert,
This may sound silly, but what if we moved all Group Builds to a new forum?
We could then keep the modelling subjects forums clear of all sticky postings.
I like your ideas, and if we went with them, then 2 forums would be created:

1. The active builds
2. The recently finished builds

I'm not sure if this is any better but just an idea feeding off of your posting.
Regards, Dan

well, we should have been doing fairly well, but we haven't, Why???

we start with 6 builds

the 2 tiger builds were started in !!??!! AUGUST !!??!! and they are still kicking around
PROBLEM: no dates to start and finish

down to 4 builds

Panther build has just passed its end date so it hopefully should be *wrapping* up
PROBLEM: People have a hard time finishing models (nothing personal)
with above standards it would be moving off to the retirement home.

down to 3

Sherman GB is almost in the middle of its dates, but unfortunately with its size I have a hard time seeing everyone getting done before the end
PROBLEM: too many people prefer allied armor over german

down to 2

Towed gun starts when?? April??!! but thats waaaaaaaaay in the future (ok maybe an exxageration)
M1 build was also posted quite early, in fact a month ahead of time, but see my above post for the reason. I am not condoning it though, I should have thought it out longer.

I also like Chris' idea of a separate page within each forum dedicated to group builds. It would prevent someone's posting of a question or recent build from being pushed off the first page prematurely. It would also be welcomed by those not interested in the group builds, as they wouldn't have to "slog through" them to get to what they want. Some great ideas here.

Dan - The suggestion of a separate forum for Group Builds was first brought up about a month ago by Domi and was met with mixed feelings. I myself like to have the Group Builds stay within their individual forums at least for the duration of their workable lives. But that is just my opinion. Once again, another viable option.

ok each forum looks sorta like this


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I propose that it look something like this

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or like this

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Ok Chris, I think I see what you're suggesting. What i thought was more along the lines of a tree structure as seen below where the Group Builds become a separate branch, but still within the Armour Forum ( or A/C Forum). But if we still get the group builds down to 2, then it leaves 18 open threads on the first page.

Forum Index
---------------Modeling Subjects
--------------------------------------Armor
----------------------------------------------Group Builds

This sounds good to me Robert.
mark956

that sounds like a great plan, i have felt that the forum has been getting cluttered recently with all the sticky posts

Hey this is becoming a great thread for discussion. We should make this a "sticky". Ha-ha-ha-ha. Ooops. Just kidding guys. LOL.

Seriously now, that looks better, Sherm.

It looks like group builds are going to be a regular feature of the forum (at least Armour) and I have to agree that the stickies will get out of hand.

A separate thread for all group builds within each main group (ie Armour) would be a great improvement, particularly given the number of postings generated even before the builds start (just check out the 2 upcoming group build threads). I am not partial to a whole new area devoted to group builds of all facets of modelling, cause I'm only interested in armour and don't want to wade through numerous wingy thingy stickies to find the thread I wan't to see.

well as a newbie to the forums and having started in a group, then having several more suggested or started [towed, Abrams and the suggested Patton] I was getting a bit overwelmed with sticky stuff

The Sherman group has more intrest for me because I am in it compared to the tiger/panther builds. I am learning what I need to do to get a better finished product with others building similar models.

I do like the idea of limiting the number and time frame for groups. I also like the idea of moving them to a location and still being able to post to them. and voting on the next group as well

with that, good nignt!

I'd go with your idea as well robert. but I'd still like to see them on the first page of armor still

First, I totally agree that the first page of the armor forum is getting WAY too crowded with group builds.

There is one problem I see with only posting group builds two weeks in advance of the start date. Lets say someone suggests in February that the start of a group build should be in April, then it is forgotten about until April because it has no sticky. Another person comes along in March and not having seen the thread for the group build already in April, decides to make a different one for the same time frame. I guess I am just saying that if you don’t make future group builds a sticky, there may be some confusion as to what time slots are open.

The only thing I can think of is a news column along the top or side of the Armor forum pointing out dates of future group builds, or perhaps a sub forum that could be accessed from the armor forum dedicated for armor group builds only as suggested by Robert. I would however suggest putting all the groups on the sub page, and none on the main armor page. I have no idea if the moderators of the forum would be willing to do either of these things, but it’s just a couple of ideas.

I am also not so sure about how voting for group builds would take place. Would people who voted against the group be ridiculed for spoiling everyone else’s fun just because they had a different group build in mind?

I just want to say that group builds are a great way of getting people motivated and get individuals exposed to topics they would normally not be interested in. However, having the first half of the forum page dedicated to group builds that have a month or two to start or having been almost inactive since the beginning of December is kind of ridiculous. On the same token, still want to hear how Bill finishes his 1/35th Tiger and if Horus, or Moses ever complete theirs.

I think the more group builds the better and in my past experience, the smaller the better. Just a personal preference, but it is easier to get to know everyone and help one another out if the group is smaller. This would mean a greater number of groups with fewer people. I really think a sub forum for each modeling subject would be best.

Sorry for my long winded $0.02 and sorry if I sound like devil's advocate.

-edog

I can agree with how Robert has it working. Having the armor gb located under the armor forum for instance would still keep them convienant and from cluttering up the main area. If there was a seperate folder for them they could also stay there instead of being mixed with the others like ac over time. At least thats how I a understanding it.

Brilliantly thought out Robert. That's good to limit group builds otherwise somebody's bound to be disappointed because they couldn't be involved in all of them. It's also hard to follow many ongoing builds at the same time.

I agree and disagree with some of the ideas. I agree that the tiger builds need to be moved/archived... something besides just sitting there since august. The panther build just ended recently so it might not be bad to leave it for another few weeks. The sherman build is current, leave it where it is.

The M1 build and Towed build should not be stickies yet, for many reasons most of which were said already. I plan to join these builds but dont think we need a sticky yet for them. If the "topic" remains active it will stay on the top of the list anyway.

Why cant there be multiple builds at the same time with no limit to people wanting to work together? If more than 4 people (or whatever) are willing to work on a similar model, why not have a sticky for them to work/share on and others to learn from. I dont think there is a problem with multiple builds at the same time, pick one, or pick many, its up to you to join the build or wait for the next one. There can be more than one sherman build per season or year, let the people decide.

I dont think the forum is cluttered with group builds, I think it is cluttered with old or premature posts (stickies). There could be a lot of "missed traffic" if you move the group build posts to a new forum area.

Anyway, I think if both tiger builds, the m1 build, and towed group were un-stickied the problem would be solved.

My main reasoning behind the brand new GB Forum was that it would incite people in trying new things, sort of cross-modeling. Because I'm not a very regular visitor of the Auto Forum in here, I nearly missed the thread about the motorbike group build. I have never built a bike ever, but I was going to give it a try (Unfortunately, time constraints have prevented me from actually starting my kit, but that's not the point).

It's certainly interesting to see 30+ threadheads building Shermans, but I think it would be even more interesting (and challenging) to see figure painters, car modelers, SF nuts, to give a Sherman a go (and dedicated AFV modelers to help them).

Just my 2cents, really.

1) The idea of a time limit works well. Once the posted expiration date or proposed completion date is reached, "un stickey" the group build and let it work its way off the list.
2) A separate or sub folder in armor for all armor group builds group builds is also a viable idea, as it only occupies one line on the list. Once there, it can be accessed and then the person looking for information on the build need only scroll down to the desired topoic.
3) The idea of a group build is great and is a valuble reference and "how to" resource. It is definately a different sort of build in that it is most like a "power or speed" build in that some projects seem to average out to taking a month or two. This is unlike some builds that can take a year or more dependent on building style, resources and complexity of project. By setting a time limit to its "active life expectency" it will attract a builder that is accustomed or willing to build at that pace. If not, the information and the posts associated with that build are still there in an archive for those that want to go back and use it as a resuorce of information.

It must be remembered that the group builds are a social phenomenon of the forum and supply a common subject for us to communicate about and share ideas, techniques and information. To date I don't belive that the model police have come to the participants house and burned it down because someone missed a deadline, dropped out or lost steam of a build.

Roberts and some of the others proposals are sound and should be considered. I agree that it is getting a tad annoying to have to scroll half way down the first page to find active topics other than the group builds. While nothing that a click of the page counter button couldn't fix, it does seem counter productive to have the load up of a catagory be nothing but stickeys of group builds.

You guys know better than me when it comes to this web site and forum business. I still dance around my computer and shake a chicken leg at it before turning it on. So whatever you decide I'm with you. (how non commital is that?) For me its still the most active and helpful forum I participate in.

Mike

I think Sherm's idea is basically aimed at two things:

1.) Clearing up the main page of the armour forum to make it more efficient and offer an easy interface for viewers/users.

I agree completely that this should be done. Presently, I think that a newcomer would be allienated by the sight of page full of group builds. Of course, regulars would understand especially if they are members of the group builds. But those who comes in here to search for information would find it hard to keep track of the other informative threads if these are constantly being pushed to the next pages because of lack of space.

2.) To rationalize or regulate the Group Build's.

This should be done, too. I believe that group builds should have definite starting and completion schedules (at least as far as it's sticky status is concerned). Of course we can have group builds of similar themes within a year but these should not be overlapping. The point that I can see here is to allow the main page of the forum to be continually changing to give it an "active look".

So I hope we can work this out for the good of the forum.

I know most of you would like to keep the builds with the subjects, but Domi's idea is what I have thinking too. If we did have a separate page, I for one, would be more inclined to check out other builds as well. I also agree with him that there would be more of a chance for crossmodelling to occur, and that would bring all forums closer together instead of independent subjects as they are now.

Regards, Dan

My vote is to leave it as is. I like to visit the group build each day and see how everyone is doing. I also agree a time limit/cutoff date should be set to avoi clutter. The Armor Forum has come a long ways in the past year. I love the way it's set up!

There definatly should be a limit of GB"s in the forum , if not just for the sake of getting builds done ( you participate in more than one , you don't tend to concentrate on getting your projects done) I also like the nomination idea on the next build to be posted . 2 weeks after end date is fair to unsticky a subject . How about a month prior ( gives everyone a chance to get supplies , we all know how UPS or fed ex is ) There are a couple of gb's, one in particular,Tiger 1 mid pro, that have had any participants at all and have been on here since I have been on here. So to make a long story shorter ..... have a reasonable start and end date , give time at end for straglers , heck we all get too busy for hobbies at times, unsticky and go on to the next build , they can always post the finish work in the main forum for all to see .