Group Builds

I'd vote for #2.

QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak Ok ... I recieved a reply from Admin in regards to sub-folders or any changes to the forum structure to accommodate this and at this time, it will not happen for various reasons. So here's the options that we are left with: 1. - leave it alone 2. - trim the numbers of stickies down. This would go back to the start / finish dates and how long they hold sticky status debate. 3. - totally eliminate stickies for Group Builds and let them live or die depending on the activity in the group.

i say trim the stickies down to two and let the others live or die depending on the activity in the group.

I'd say go with #1, then.
I've never felt it was inconvenient or troublesome to scroll down past the stickies.
Then again, I usually read them all!

Ok ... I recieved a reply from Admin in regards to sub-folders or any changes to the forum structure to accommodate this and at this time, it will not happen for various reasons.

So here's the options that we are left with:

1. - leave it alone

2. - trim the numbers of stickies down. This would go back to the start / finish dates and how long they hold sticky status debate.

3. - totally eliminate stickies for Group Builds and let them live or die depending on the activity in the group.

Sometimes the simplest of solutions are often overlooked ..... and Muzzleflash's point is a very good one ..... why are GBs sticky .... if their very active they'll stay near the top anyways. A good point to ponder.

Just random thoughts that evolved from this:

1) If you put the GB's into their own folder fewer people will read them.

2) I dare anyone to go back and read old builds!!! Most of them are a few pages short of a novel, and if new kits are released then the information in them would be dated as much as the post itself. Also, a new build of the same subject might be under way. Removing the sticky status would not kill the thread, it would only allow it to move down the list when its not active, it would jump back to the top when the late posters make their posts.

3) Why are group builds sticky to begin with? If they are active with even just a few builders it would be near the top of the list.... and if you save the link as bookmark or email links then it wouldnt matter where the post resides....

I think the problem would be solved by removing the sticky status of the panther, tiger(s), M1, and towed group.... or removing sticky status entirely for GB's

Rich, it is fair for you to voice your opinion. That's the whole idea behind this thread. Input is needed.

Well Robert I agree with limiting the amount of time a group build can be a sticky. I personally don't get to upset with having to muddle thru about 10 Group Build Topics but if you set a Time limit then that should make those that it does bother happy. The other thing I dont think should happen is limiting the number of group builds that can be active at one time. Was the Idea of maybe saying if you get more than x number of people then we will give you sticky status if you dont reach that number well you can still do your group build we just aren't going to give you a sticky status????? I dont think anyone should be stopped from starting a group build,, group builds are obviously a good thing, however whether it gets sticky status or not is what should be controlled.

I dont know if what I said makes to much sense, but there's my feeling on this topic.

My bottom line tho is this: I am agreeable to anything that goes down,, I am new to the forums and what I just said has probably been stated by others in one form or another,,but wanted to throw my 2 cents into the ring to help the process along to make the forums enjoyable for everyone.

I've fired off an e-mail to admin, just to see if this can be done or not. Not requesting any changes yet, I'd still like to hear from a few more members.

Well isn't this a sticky situation. So Robert, you don't want to go to the Admin. yet? I would think that would be one of the first places to go. But you started this so drive on! There have been alot of good ideas, but "thining the herd" seems to be popular. Maybe just a bit of self-control is in order for us assorted nuts.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn Preventing ovelaps will basically keep the number down. If in January there are three group builds, one January-February, one February-April, one April-July, no one is going to start another one from July! It's just too far off. Overlaps also force people to have to choose which build they are involved with, unless those people are Dwight.

[:0]




Well, I thinks it looks like we are getting somewhere now. Good!

QUOTE: Originally posted by M1abramsRules it looks like that is the trend, so what do we do know??? start apetition to send to the higher-ups at kalmbach??

Not yet ..... this thread is only a day old ..... a little more input and we'll go from there.

it sounds good to me.

QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak Some very good points have been made so far in this thread. Thanks to you all for your participation so far. Now let me see if I have figured out what the majority think. 1. Group build sub folders within each forum seem to be the most well recieved. 2. No limits on the number of group builds, let the membership decide by the number of posts. 3. No selection process .... if 3 or 4 members want to start a GB bases upon "Iraqi tanks that actually got to fire a shot" ... then they're good to go. Personally, I think this would work very well. By moving the GBs to a sub folder within the forum, it would eliminate the mass sticky psots that we have happening now. If they were within this subgroup, it really wouldn't matter how many or how long they were active within this folder and furthermore, they wouldn't need sticky status in there. This may be the simplest and pleasing to the most solution available. Keep the comments coming, we may be on to something here.

it looks like that is the trend, so what do we do know??? start apetition to send to the higher-ups at kalmbach??

In some ways they've already done that with the meta-thread on Group Builds in General modelling. It lists all the GBs that are happening with the links to get to each one.

I'm with Dwight, I think any of the suggestions will work well.

Robert,
i agree w/ putting the GB stuff in the subfolder in the appropriate forum.

but i wonder if the web-monsters can make a 'links page' or something
that would basically have ALL the group build topics in one big group build category
as well.

some how cross linking them so you could get to the same GB discussion
by either going
-Armour
- Group Builds
- Sherman Build
- Panther Build
- 1/16 Tiger Build

OR
-Group Builds
- Armor
- Sherman Build
- Panther Build
- 1/16 Tiger Build
....
-Aircraft
- Concorde
- Me262
- Marine
. . . .
- Automobiles
- Nascar Group Build
- Superbike Group Build
. . .

and so on.

So a modeler looking for a different type of project could scan a comprehensive
GB menu, organized by Genre, without hopping from Aircraft to Armor to Autos to
Ships to SciFi to see what's cooking.

am i making sense?
i bet they could do it.

ed.

Ummm yeah... What Shermanfreak said.... Thats a good all around solution I believe...

Some very good points have been made so far in this thread. Thanks to you all for your participation so far.

Now let me see if I have figured out what the majority think.

1. Group build sub folders within each forum seem to be the most well recieved.
2. No limits on the number of group builds, let the membership decide by the number of posts.
3. No selection process .... if 3 or 4 members want to start a GB bases upon "Iraqi tanks that actually got to fire a shot" ... then they're good to go.

Personally, I think this would work very well. By moving the GBs to a sub folder within the forum, it would eliminate the mass sticky psots that we have happening now. If they were within this subgroup, it really wouldn't matter how many or how long they were active within this folder and furthermore, they wouldn't need sticky status in there. This may be the simplest and pleasing to the most solution available.

Keep the comments coming, we may be on to something here.

Mike (renarts),

I never thought of shaking a chicken leg at the computer! LOL! Maybe that's what I've been doing wrong, I've been using pork... the other white meat.
Anyhoo, a lot of good ideas here and to offer my own non-commital assistance, I'll quote 'Oh Brother Where Art Thou?' in saying.... "I'm with you fellas."

Ron

What Bill, and Ed said…

the more group builds, the better, but I don’t want to sift through a bunch of car, aircraft, figure and sci fi stuff to get to that old 1/35th tiger build. I think a sub folder for group builds in each topics forum would be the way to go.

As far as people getting involved in more builds then they can handle, well most of us are responsible adults and should be allowed to judge for ourselves what we can and cannot do. (not speaking for myself of course)

QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88 If the "topic" remains active it will stay on the top of the list anyway. I dont think there is a problem with multiple builds at the same time, pick one, or pick many, its up to you to join the build or wait for the next one.

4 my

frosty

there have been a lot of good points made.
i would like to throw in my two cents.

i do not think there should be a limit to the number of group builds.
let the members' interest and willingness to participate decide what
will and won't be a group build.
i understand that everyone will not be able to participate in every build
when stuff runs concurrently.
but we are old enough to be trusted w/ glue and hobby knives;
we should be able to decide if we want to be in one build, the other or both.
if you miss out on a build because you are tied up w/ another project,
perhaps you can start another group build for the same subject
(after the first has finished)

my concern here is as follows:
if there were one build a quarter, and it was done by 'majority rules' voting,
the quarters would might soon break down to
1) sherman
2) german WWII armor
3) modern armor
4) AA or Arty

it could conceivably be years before there is a gun truck build (Monster!),
or a WWI tank build or anything outside of the most popular subjects.

there are many niche areas in armor that are already being pushed to the margin.
but if you can get 4 or 6 guys together to work on Vietnam gun trucks,
they should not be 'made' to wait a few years for their 'turn'.

i don't think there would be a problem w/ a huge proliferation of group builds,
but if there were, and they were active, i think that's a good thing.

i had to skip the Sherman group build, as i had my hands full w/ my Panther.
AND i am one of the tardy Panther crew besides.
i should be done in another day or two.
i would like to get into the towed gun build,
and i will if i have time.
i have no interest in the M1 build, but i certainly would not say
that since i don't want to do it, no one else can!

let the members vote w/ their time & commitment.
if you can get people together for a build,
you should be able to start it.
if there is no interest, or those who would like to participate are already committed to a project
then the build will have to be put off until a the proper numbers can be gathered.

On the other part of the discussion:
i think maybe putting the group builds in the 'tree' in their
respective categories might be a good idea.
i wonder if they could also be 'cross-linked' to a 'Group Build' Topic,
so you could get there either way.

thanks for listening.
ed.

Lots of interesting ideas here. Guess it's time for my 2 cents!

- I agree something needs to be done. I've been thinking for a long time that the 1/35 Tiger build shouldn't be in the sticky area anymore as it's had virtually no activity since the middle of December. I think I'm about the only one that posts anything in there and that isn't very often. However, I don't want to see it totally disappear, either.

- I like the idea of a separate sub-folder with in the forum for the inactive stickies. They wouldn't need to be stickies anymore, just moved into the archive folder. Any "late" posts could still be made there.

- I do not like the idea of a combined, global level group build forum. If I want to go back and look at what the Eric's did on the 1/16 Tiger build, I don't want to have to look through a bunch of pages of aircraft, boat, sci-fi, or whatever builds to find it. It eventually will be hard enough to find a specific group build just within the armor archived folder.

- I feel the active group build stickies should either stay at the top of the forum, or there be and active group build sub-folder within the armor forum. (Not having anything to do with the administration of this site, I don't know how practical it is to do sub-folders. If it's possible at all, it may have too much overhead associated with it.)

- I don't think a build thread should be made a sticky until fairly close to the start date. It should be a normal thread until then. I feel making it a sticky way early encourages an awful lot of posts before the build even starts. Take a look at the post count on the M1 and Towed Gun GB. It gets very unwieldy to have to look through so many pages to even get to the start of the build.

- One thing that might help the GB administration (of what and when), but wouldn't help with the mega-post problem, would be to have yet another sub-folder which would contain threads of future group builds. The thread would stay in the future sub-folder until one or two weeks before the official start date, then get moved to the main forum, or active group build sub-folder.

I don't feel there is one perfect solution for this. There is going to be compromise involved no matter how it's done.

I'm done!

GB is a great way to trade information between friends , and it is also nice for someone not generally interested in a particular subject to see pictures of the finished product ( not a big Sherman fan here , however there have been some incredible builds in that forum , as have the panther and those Big tigers have just awestruck me with the complex PE details on some of them ). So it is good to have a variety on here as well , just not too many of them at once . Us modelers have a bad habit of doing too many kits at once !

I have started a poll about this subject
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15039

I have to say that the stickies have not caused me any great problems as of yet. But I can understand trying to control the number of group builds. Too many basically dilutes them, and it's not a bad idea to kick around some notions on keeping them from proliferating like tribbles.

I think the ground rules could simply be:

1) No overlapping group build periods
2) stickies should be unstuck based on activity in the thread
3) a designated start and finish period

I think the rest will take care of itself.

Preventing ovelaps will basically keep the number down. If in January there are three group builds, one January-February, one February-April, one April-July, no one is going to start another one from July! It's just too far off. Overlaps also force people to have to choose which build they are involved with, unless those people are Dwight.

One at a time. If you want to sticky something, look at what has already been stickied and set your group build in the gaps, not stepping on another stickied build.. That's really the only reasonable course.

Even if there was a group build scheduled for every quarterly period between now and eternity, I wouldn't particularly mind, as long as they run sequentially and don't overlap.

I don't think we need to be overly strict in de-stickying "expired" builds, because let's admit it, many of us go beyond the group build period. If it's still going, even though the target date has expired, why not keep it up and running as a forum event rather than just another thread? But if there is little activity, then it can be de-stickified. I don't think a build member would object if an expired group build has been destickied because there has been no activity in, say, three days, but if lots of people are still posting on the Sherman build in the weeks following its expiration, they would find it odd that it suddenly disappeared off the radar screen. We are a chatty bunch, and the destickied thread would quickly disappear off the page.

Remember, group builds help get models made! Anyone here disagree with that? We should think twice before overly restricting them, because building models is a good thing, as Martha Stewart might say from her prison cell.

Great ideas..... I would vote for all the group builds (active and expired) in thier own forum.

Jim.

What if there's just a group build topic, and they all go there.