German armor base coat color

If you want to follow the "Rules" then it should be a dark brown ( I forget the German name for it right now) but I have seen many people use black to get great results. I've felt for a while now that unless your going to put a really thin layer of paint on with modern paints there is little difference. I say a thin layer to take into account preshading and I think thats where future debate on paint will go - which is best pre or post shading.

Vallejo make a brown primer which is very good and is a pretty close match to the original.

Phil

I use Italian Dark Brown (in the MM enamel line) as my preferred primer but not because I use it to follow the strict pattern of what the Germans used (they applied a red oxide primer). I use it because it sprays easily, provides a nice contrast to the light gray plastic the kits are usually in, and makes for a solid base to check putty, seams, and for the applications of additional colors. If you want to do pre-shading, flat black works best for dark monochrome schemes like Panzer Gray but you may find it too stark for lighter monochrome stuff like Dunkelgelb. Play around with it and see what works best, only way to find out for sure!

Hummm…

thanks guys, this is alot of great info. Im building the Italeri Pannther G it was packaged by Dragon. I want to paint it in late 1944 or early 1945 coloring, im trying to make a dio of the wiking division preparing to advance into the unknown, kind of inspired by the film clips of Kharkov and the story of the failed attempt to relieve budapest.

IMHO pre-shading is largely a wasted effort when you're doing camo schemes that have large color blocks like what you would see in late '44 or '45. Unless you pre-shade and apply the camo blocks independently (meaning no solid color base coat underneath), the pre-shade will get lost in the successive paint coats as it's virtually impossible to keep the coats thin enough to allow the pre-shade to work.

wbill76

IMHO pre-shading is largely a wasted effort when you're doing camo schemes that have large color blocks like what you would see in late '44 or '45. Unless you pre-shade and apply the camo blocks independently (meaning no solid color base coat underneath), the pre-shade will get lost in the successive paint coats as it's virtually impossible to keep the coats thin enough to allow the pre-shade to work.

could you give me an example of what I should do then, if im camoflaging

If you're applying large pattern camouflage, keep doing what you've been doing with the Dark Brown. If you want to see some SBS walkthroughs of the methods I use personally for various different types of schemes, you can see them here: http://www.bpmodels.net under the Build Logs section. HTH!

Thanks wbill76, this will help alot

TomZ2

Hummm…

The only thing I'd caution is the repeated use of the "same" colors. Some guy was just remarking on one of the forums I read about how "all of our models are looking the same now because we're all using the same products, and the same methods." Sage advice---this is a great place to start, and even replicate---but keep changing up your formula (paints used, ratios, etc) every now and then to avoid getting "boring" with your finishes.

wbill76

IMHO pre-shading is largely a wasted effort when you're doing camo schemes that have large color blocks like what you would see in late '44 or '45. Unless you pre-shade and apply the camo blocks independently (meaning no solid color base coat underneath), the pre-shade will get lost in the successive paint coats as it's virtually impossible to keep the coats thin enough to allow the pre-shade to work.

I pretty much always preshade under every finish. It depends how you're approaching the actual airbrushing of your model. If your style of painting is to cover every centimeter of the model with a more-or-less consistent coat of paint, then, YES, it IS largely a waste of time, so agreed there,Bill.

However, the way I paint is that I don't necessarily see the "whole" model painted with an even, consistent coat of paint. A lot of times, I deliberately don't apply paint in one spot or the other, or apply a very thin coat--almost just a "suggestion" of color--in spots, so that the dark of the undercoat acts as a shadow. It's almost like weathering AS you're painting. It requires a bit of forethought and planning, and more than a little bit of derring-do, because you can get a somewhat-inconsistent finish that takes some work to correct, but it can be done.

No disparagement intended from my end Karl...hence the phrasing 'unless you pre-shade and apply the blocks independently'. That's essentially the way you described your process. I agree that it can be done, but it requires a different thought process/approach that's more complex. Always more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to model finishes.

Yup, agreed Bill. I hope I didn't sound too "anal". I owe ya a beer in Atlanta!

the doog

Yup, agreed Bill. I hope I didn't sound too "anal". I owe ya a beer in Atlanta!

No worries Karl, see you in Atlanta! Just getting the final stuff packed up today then have to catch a super-early flight in the morning.

AMPS report: Bill did NOT beat me up when he saw me. I repeat; Bill did not kick my butt. lol!

I use and recommend MM Panzer Dunkelgelb 1943. Works for me.

Do you thin it down with paint thinner at all, to a 80-20 ratio

wbill76

Had a blast in Atlanta! Great meeting you there Karl!