Sd. Kfz. 234/2 question

wbill76

On the question of mixing your own DY, it all depends on what you intend to do with the finish after painting. Since weathering (generally speaking) tends to darken a finish, I always lighten my DY to compensate. I use Model Master enamels for my builds and create a 50/50 mix of Panzer Dunkelgelb and Light Gray that works very well as a starting point IMHO. HTH!

Thanks Bill.  This being a first for me, ALL advice is welcomed.  I'm planning a camo over the dunkelgelb base-coat, so this will definately help.  Thanks again!

Eagle90

On the question of mixing your own DY, it all depends on what you intend to do with the finish after painting. Since weathering (generally speaking) tends to darken a finish, I always lighten my DY to compensate. I use Model Master enamels for my builds and create a 50/50 mix of Panzer Dunkelgelb and Light Gray that works very well as a starting point IMHO. HTH!

In most cases numbers were 3 digits. reading from right to left they were fro Company, Platoon, Vehicle. In some cases, such as Recce Platoons, there may only be two digits.

The vehicle art is usually Div insignia, though in some cases individual art work was applied.

Lots of great advice guys!  Thank you all.  Keep it coming.  Where would be the best place to see what unit numbers and/or any other things are on the vehicle?  Looks like they kept it simple with numbers, but I see a few with little bits of "art" on them.  Thanks again everyone!  

Eagle90

jack, I once read an account of a museum stripping back I think a 251 and they found up to 9 different shades of DY. I guess it would simply depend on which company mixed the particular batch of paint.

I have seen mentioned, particularly at missinglynx forums, the possible existence of 5 shades of this dunkelgelb.  I always thought the German war industry quite meticulous, so for them to mislabel the exact nature of a colour, well I guess anything is possible - but I haven't studied this colour in any great depth like some others have to question the translation of 'dark yellow'.

Some of the colour examples I have seen, again via the net, do appear tan.  From an artist's viewpoint, yellow can be darkened with brown which will give you tan, or with black which will give a result leaning towards green.  Then there is all the other combinations in between by using both brown and black in varying degrees.

btw Eric, exceptional build on that Mark IV

regards,

Jack

Bish

Nice Pz IV Eric, that's the kit I am doing for the D-Day GB. I hope I can come close to yours.

Eagle, one thing to remember about the German camo is that it was applied in the field. The vehicles left the factory in Dark Yellow. The other two colours were supplied to the troops as a paste. This could be thinned with anything to hand, water, petrol, oil etc. This of course would effect the final colour. It could be applied with an airbrush, but of course in the field these might not always work. So they could be applied with a brush, mop or anything else.

Eric is right in that we try to go for the perfect scheme. But often photo's show anything but. To the modeller, this just doesn't look right, I thin we are afraid it would like it had been painted by a 2 year old, even if it was 100% realistic. I think this is something we need to get over.

I think this is very true. Now the only time I argue against this point is when the modeler throws in a totally unrealistic camo scheme, i.e. big zig-zags, or big spots. One still needs to do his homework.

Nice Pz IV Eric, that's the kit I am doing for the D-Day GB. I hope I can come close to yours.

Eagle, one thing to remember about the German camo is that it was applied in the field. The vehicles left the factory in Dark Yellow. The other two colours were supplied to the troops as a paste. This could be thinned with anything to hand, water, petrol, oil etc. This of course would effect the final colour. It could be applied with an airbrush, but of course in the field these might not always work. So they could be applied with a brush, mop or anything else.

Eric is right in that we try to go for the perfect scheme. But often photo's show anything but. To the modeller, this just doesn't look right, I thin we are afraid it would like it had been painted by a 2 year old, even if it was 100% realistic. I think this is something we need to get over.

Eagle90

tigerman

I've seen a many  "squiggly" patterns of green and red-brown on Tigers, Panthers, and Pz IV's in the area. Volstad has a nice camo pattern on his Dragon Panther A Late box-art.

Here's my rendition on my Pz IV.

Tigerman....nice armor!  Is that an AM machine gun on top?  Thanks for the pic!

Eagle90

Thanks Eagle. Nope, it's not AM. This is the 1/35 Tamiya Pz IV J. As usual, I understate the weathering. Just my style.

tigerman

I agree with you Roy, but it's hard to avoid it. I mean we are literally giants with a giant-size airbrush, thus it's much harder to avoid the technique you're pointing out.

One thing I've observed is that modelers are much more perfectionists when applying camo then the Germans. I've seen many photos of pretty half-arsed schemes applied. Many in just blobs.

COOL!  Can I use that as an excuse if my paint job in not good?!   I'll claim perfect "in the field" applied paint!  

tigerman

I've seen a many  "squiggly" patterns of green and red-brown on Tigers, Panthers, and Pz IV's in the area. Volstad has a nice camo pattern on his Dragon Panther A Late box-art.

Here's my rendition on my Pz IV.

Eagle90

JohanT

Ditto what Mr. Chow just wrote about the DY - I think Mr. Bill has his own recipe as well using enamels.

Here is a link to some schemes...

www.militaryfactory.com/.../pic-detail.asp

Best Regards

Johan

Johan, many thanks for the link!  Great site.  That will definitely help!

Eagle90

I agree with you Roy, but it's hard to avoid it. I mean we are literally giants with a giant-size airbrush, thus it's much harder to avoid the technique you're pointing out.

One thing I've observed is that modelers are much more perfectionists when applying camo then the Germans. I've seen many photos of pretty half-arsed schemes applied. Many in just blobs.

I'm not saying snaky, squiggly camo patterns did not exist.  They clearly did.  What I'm saying is the never-ending, continuous line is hard to see in actual photos. Modelers tend to do them way too much with the "hand of god" perspective, IMHO.  

I've seen a many  "squiggly" patterns of green and red-brown on Tigers, Panthers, and Pz IV's in the area. Volstad has a nice camo pattern on his Dragon Panther A Late box-art.

Here's my rendition on my Pz IV.

Ditto what Mr. Chow just wrote about the DY - I think Mr. Bill has his own recipe as well using enamels.

Here is a link to some schemes...

www.militaryfactory.com/.../pic-detail.asp

Best Regards

Johan

Thank you Mr. Chow!  Awesome advise.  I see what you mean about the "hand of God".  Makes sense.  

So after a base-coat of dunkelgelb, any camo would be dark green or red-brown correct?  Thanks again for the help!

Eagle90

In Feb '43, directives were issued that all AFVs were to be painted in a base color of dunkelgelb or dark yellow (actually a misnomer as it's really a tan color).  This was due to the dust that was commonplace in Russia and most of the European battlefields -- not because of any continued thoughts to fight in desert climes.  In the Normandy timeframe, camo colors of dark green or red-brown could be added at the local unit's discretion.  Later, some factories applied standard camo schemes.  Your Puma wouldn't fit in this option.  Modelwise, paint a basecoat of dunkelgeb and you're free to add camo as you see fit.  Best to mimic a photo or two if you have them.  Both the Italeri and DML kits give paint profiles, I believe.

I advise modelers to avoid the "hand of god" technique where a snaking camo line goes on for 50 feet all over the vehicle.  This defies logic as you should consider how an actual man, with a hose and airgun, would paint camo. 

While many companies make a dunkelgelb color, I mix my own.  I use about Tamiya, 2 parts buff, 1 part dark yellow, 1 part white.