Paint recipe/Panzer Grey

I would only mix blue into a dark PG for one reason. A winter diorama.

The actual color as best as we can tell was an extremely dark gray with nary a hint of blue. In fact it appears to lean toward the brown register.

Because weathering has a tendency to darken a finish, I'd start with a lighter mix, say 60/40 XF 63 and XF 20 Medium Gray. I'd fade that a bit with straight XF 20.  

I really like the MiG Dk. Brown/Blue pinwash for the accents. That's where blue can make sense. 

Gents, this is a most interesting dicussion, and as I'm approaching my first PG projects I was searching for info regarding the colour. Prefering Tamiya paints, I too come armed with Tony Greenland's formula and was hoping for inpressions on it. Mr Greenland prefered Xtracoloour X-800, calling it a perfect match to the best of his available research, and he offered the XF-24 : XF-8 (4:1) ratio as an optional mix to arrive at the same values as X-800.

He never mentions Tamiya XF-63, however, which Tamiya sells as a match -- what do others think of it? And what about Model Master Acryl 4795, which came out long after Tony Greenland wrote his book? (I prefer acrylics ansdtend to do most of my work in mixed Tamiyas).

In short, I'm looking for tips from long-term PG builders on what the best matches out of the bottle may be and the best formulas and modulations you can recommend. I'm more than happy to mix and tint. The blue content has been stressed by some folks, but I find myself wondering if that component is actually reflected daylight on a pure grey surface -- that would give colour photos a definite blue cast that is an artifact of the conditions rather than the paint.

Tamiya Blue-Grey XF-23 has recently been used by some modellers as the base colour, but seems lo me like the ghost of Panzer Grey -- a 5% glaze of XF-23 may be appropirate for fading PG, though.

I hope there are some more stimulating opinions out there!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Been too long since I read Moby ***.

I'm really only referring to models in a monotone light blue grey finish, nothing against the use of fading techniques in general, I use them too, it's just the overall tone of the finished model being too blue that I object to.

Who was Ixion you ask? The race of centaurs in Greek mythology traced their descent back to Ixion, the Thessalian king of the ancient tribe of Lapiths.

GMorrison

Tamiya paint tends to be blue to start with. Once you get it figured out, we'll call it the "ixion solution".

What's an ixion?

Karls sweet Vorpanzer started the paint cycle darn near black. Very impressive of course, being a model of his, and he brought it out of the shadows just enough.

Ixion

This is a Panzer, not a pair of jeans.

Tamiya paint tends to be blue to start with. Once you get it figured out, we'll call it the "ixion solution".

What's an ixion?

Karls sweet Vorpanzer started the paint cycle darn near black. Very impressive of course, being a model of his, and he brought it out of the shadows just enough.

Certainly, test first. Just looking at the mix proportions, you would think it is totally wrong. Best to try it out on a junker, it should be very dark indeed. I don't use Tamiya paint, so I can't really say without seeing it first.

It's worth noting though. You aren't mixing colors, you are mixing paint. So it depends on the chemistry. These aren't hand ground pigments in oil. For $ 3.50 a bottle, it's worth a try and test it on a donor tank.

I agree completely Karl. Nothing I hate more than a Baby-Blue Panzer, taking fading to the point of absurdity.

But if Tony Greenland actually uses this mix on his models, they don't look blue at all in his books. In fact, they are quite dark, just as they should be. Resist the radical fading temptation, it is way overdone in too many cases. This is a Panzer, not a pair of jeans.

"Out of the blue and into the black."....

Be aware though, that the addition of blue is really more "artistic license" than realistic. Panzer gray was really a very dark grey, almost black in most cases.

A slight clarification, but I believe it is Tony Greenland's  Dunkelgrau recipe that you desire. Taken from his book; Panzer Modelling Masterclass, his Tamiya paint mix would be 20% Flat Blue, ( XF-8), mixed with 80% Dark Grey (XF-24).