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Putting a tank in your tiger; Turrets syndrome

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  • Member since
    September 2011
Posted by fightnjoe on Monday, April 5, 2004 11:38 AM
that loud thump you just heard was my jaw hitting the floor again. incredible.

joe

Veterans,

Thank You For Your Sacrifices,

Never To Be Forgotten

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 5, 2004 9:32 AM
Here's some theory on adhesion, based on my training in aircraft metal bonding.

In this instance we can compare a glossy and a flat paint finish with an untreated and anodized/etched aluminium surface respectivly.

Depending on how fluid the adhesive is, in this case the liquidized salt, the salt will adhere to the surface in different ways. The basic rule is for more adhesion, the more surface area is needed. The reason why an aluminium surface is anodized or etched before bonding is to create a porous surface. If you were to take the entire surface, including the tunnel lining created by the anodizing/etching, then the surface area would be hugely increased. Now the more fluid, the better the adhesion is going to be because it can creep into the rough surface. When it dries it creates a very strong bond. Basic rule for salt is that its not made too wet, otherwise it'll never come off (completely) again. The reason why a gloss coat is laid down before decals is to do the same. Create a large as possible undersurface. On a flat finish the decal basically sits on top of the microscopic paint mountains. The silvering you see on a decal is just air underneath the decal. By using a gloss coat and overwetting the salt will also make it stick like a bugger. Imagine a pot on the kitchen counter that needs drying. If its sitting in a puddle of water and has a flat undersurface you get somethng called hydraulic lock. Its not too different from a suction cup. As there0s no air and no air can get there, the underside of the pot is vaccuum sucked to the counter with a perfect seal. It takes a fair bit of force to break this lock. Imagine that with something that dies up and solidifies.

In other words, you only ever want to use enough water to just make the salt stick. If you don't use too much water it really doesn't matter if you use flat or glossy paint. In fact, by exploiting the silvering decal phenomenon, you can get salt to hang on until you rub it off and get everything of ( I just rub it off with my finger..), so flat is beneficial, going over what I just wrote. Besides, it also speeds things up because you don't have to wait for an extra layer to dry..

Hope this helps..
  • Member since
    December 2003
Posted by cbreeze on Monday, April 5, 2004 9:03 AM
Greetings,

Great job on the turrent!!!!!!!!!

I have been experimenting using salt to simulate paint chipping on 1/48 aircraft. I have tried it, though a little more work, looks really nice. I was reading how you did yours and noticed that you did not mention using a clear coat after the base coat. Appears that you just used a base coat, applied the salt, sprayed your top coat, picked off the salt crystals and done. I have been using a clear coat after the base coat and before setting the salt crystals. I am wondering if the clear coat is really necessary. Not a real big deal but it would eliminate a step. Would appreciate any comments from those more experienced than me.

Thanks,

Chuck B.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:52 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Michaelvk

Please be my guest, Matt. Though truth be known I saw it somewhere here or missing-lynx. I can't remember.. It is very easy though, isn't it? The only tricky bit is working out how much burnt sienna oil paint to use.


That's alright, I have a ExperimentoPanzer II which gets wrecked before any innocent models get touched!Tongue [:P]

Good luck with the rest of the build.

Matt
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:23 AM
Please be my guest, Matt. Though truth be known I saw it somewhere here or missing-lynx. I can't remember.. It is very easy though, isn't it? The only tricky bit is working out how much burnt sienna oil paint to use.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:32 AM
Hi there
Great work Michael. Really like it. And now I know how to weather with salt(all i need is a model to try it onSad [:(]Banged Head [banghead])

Keep well.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:59 AM
Hey michael,

I am stealing your rust idea. What an easy way of applying it! I think it looks right, too.

Matt
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:28 AM
No idea.. I'm guessing that it would end up pretty damp in there with five guys sweating it out in combat and condensation forming overnight... Doesn't really matter.. I think it looks good.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:54 AM
Fantastic job on the interior although..................................................Would there have been so much rust?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:47 PM
Thanks EX18B.. And congrats on the retirement! Thanks for keeping the world safe for almost as long as I've been alive.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:44 PM
Its one of the best methods to weather paint, Spector822002.. First you lay down a base coat of (in this case) German grey. If you were doing a, for example, Japanese WWII aircraft, you would be using aluminium... After the base coat is dry you then use a little water to attch plain table salt to the area's you want to have weathered paint. This would be walkways, hand grabs.. Basically everywhere the vehicle is manhandled or subjected to abuse in general. Once the salt had had time to dry, you then add the top coat of colour. This is in my tigers turret white. After this is dry, rub off the salt, slightly using it as an abrasive. This way you'll end up removing realistic chunks of paint very easily.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:40 PM
Oh so nice!!! Looks great man.... Hope to see the rest of the kitty soon...
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Southern Maine
Posted by spector822002 on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:36 PM
Ok sorry to be a complete bonehead here , but what does the salt do ? Add texture? Just wondering , I have myself learned a trick or 2 from LQ2 he finds some pretty crafty stuff !Cool [8D]
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Kent, England
Posted by nmayhew on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:10 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by subfixer

What is the preferred type of salt? Regular table salt, sea salt, Kosher or a mix? Epsom salts, perhaps?


ok, on a serious note regarding types of salt (Laugh [(-D]), i used large crystal sea salt - the type you put in the big salt/pepper mill type thingies - on my p-40 for the pearl harbour group build (wingy thingy[:0]) and whilst the results were good, they could have been improved by using a finer grain salt.
i would suggest therefore, regular table salt.
regards,
nick
ps i can't believe i just wrote that!! sounds more like a cooking forum!!Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]
Kind regards, Nicholas
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:32 AM
Just table salt, Subfixer.. Allegedly popcorn salt for smaller scales works good too..

Thanks for the kind words, Robert. Though credit where credit's due, Chris (Lizardqing2) enspired me to use the salt technique again after seeing his Marder III.
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:30 AM
What is the preferred type of salt? Regular table salt, sea salt, Kosher or a mix? Epsom salts, perhaps?

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:53 AM
Very nice Michael.
You have used that salt technique in ways that I never even considered. You have made that interior look exceptional !!!
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Kent, England
Posted by nmayhew on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:20 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ShermanFirefly

ooooooooooo
ahhhhhhhh
lookin good!


Laugh [(-D]
...and my sentiments exactly!!
great looking interior!Cool [8D]
regards,
nick
Kind regards, Nicholas
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:18 AM
Once again, thanks for the kind words all.

Edog, the after market bits are the Aber detail and fender sets for the Italeri Tiger E/H1 and a Jordi Rubio barrel. The interiour has only a smattering of spare parts, kit parts and some sprue. The gun sight is a pair sprue lengths, a 1:72 german towing clasp and a section of PE fret. No real AM bits there, just a nifty paint job, which is easier than it looks.
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Southern Maine
Posted by spector822002 on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:02 AM
Yea that really is kool , it does look like the interior of an old combat weary tiger1 . The rust streaks are a very nice touch!
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Exit 7a NJ Turnpike
Posted by RAF120 on Monday, March 22, 2004 5:46 PM
Michael That looks awesome. I like the rust and the salt thing, I'm going to try that some where.
Trevor Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 22, 2004 5:42 PM
Very nice stuff!! I love the weathering. Just curious as to which AM bits you are using. Very nice though.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 22, 2004 5:22 PM
ooooooooooo
ahhhhhhhh
lookin good!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Monday, March 22, 2004 4:40 PM
well, if you can do that, make a complete alternate turret top-out of plexiglass, add in some lights, and wire it all up!, then you can see your work or show it off!, or you can have the top removable

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 22, 2004 4:04 PM
Thanks for the kind words all.. Fingers crossed I don't stuff the rest up.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 22, 2004 9:20 AM
Looks great Michael! More! More!
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Monday, March 22, 2004 8:48 AM
Looks great!
Just leave the hatches open, and you'll be able to see plenty.

Anybody climbing into that rusty kitty better get a tetanus shot first!
~Brian
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Monday, March 22, 2004 6:49 AM
Michael,
Beautiful! amazing work.

i had a scary moment when i looked at the first picture.
i am so used to looking 'up' into the turret from the bottom, w/ the turret top on,
that i thought that's what i was looking at. which would mean all of the rust was going 'up' instead of down.
but fortunately, i was confused!

it really is a shame to cover this up.
great job!

ed.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 22, 2004 6:36 AM
Forgot a piccy:

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