Pigments?

I'm the last one who should answer this,but you'll probably get real responses from the better part of theses forums.Get some and apply to a primed or painted surface and see for yourself. I just started to use them because to me they can leave a subtle shade of what you are trying to depict eg.,rust, smoke, shadow, etc. I usually apply dry with a brush or sponge. I haven't used them wet but it will probably come up eventually.  They compliment the other weathering materials.

Yeah a lot has changed. Pigment powders are used, as Templar said, for rust, smoke etc. as dry, mud, streaks etc. as wet. You can also use oils as a pin wash.

Here is an example of my recent F-8 using pin washes and wet pigment powders.

There are several other members who are fantastic with these, too many to name but I'm sure they will show up.

I think initially when pigments, or weathering powders, first came out, they were almost exclusively used dry, and were ideal for mimicking dust and dirt effects.  Applied to a wet surface, you can actually build up layers for heavier or accumulated look of dirt. 

You can also apply it wet like paint, but the look of it is less sublte.  Extremely thinned you can apply it as a wash, filling in recessed detail. 

regards,

Jack

You can use them either in a liquid, i use water, or dry. The older method was to use chalk pastels, but pigments are far beter IMHO allowing a build up of dust.

That F-8 looks amazing modelcrazy!  So from what I'm seeing Jack, modelcrazy, and Bish is that pigments are commonly used now for what I would have lightly airbrushed back when I was a teen to create some of the same weathering effects.  And they can also be used for creating more natural mud texture on ground vehicles for example?

ETA:  I should stipulate that I'll soon be working on Tamiya's 1:35 Panther Ausf. D that I'll be modifying as a Befehlswagen from I./Pz.Rgt. 4 at Anzio.  So I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I start on it.

Ye, although airbrushing is still a part of of it. I use differant weatehring products, and there is a huge range now, sprayed on for the initial stage, giving a ground in dirt/dust look and then the pigments on top of that. It allows you to build up piles of dust/dirt in corners for example that i have not been able to do with anthing else.

Heres a couple of examples. On this, hopefuly you can see the build up of sand in the angle where the horizontal and vertical plate meet.

And this has a dust layer sprayed on and pigments around the engine hatch. Darker piments were used for the mud lower down.

Those look fantastic Bish!  Are there any video how to's or online articles documenting how to achieve that buildup using pigments?

Not that i am aware of. I have just followed other peoples builds and picked it up as i went along. Fot the dusty look i mix with a drop of water and a tiny drop of washing up liquid them apply all over, it looks a bit messy. Once dry, i just remove excess with a stiff brush. For the mud i make a much thicker mix and apply, you can also add a little bit of plaster of paris to harden it.

Just start off easy. With your subject, consider the terrain and weather conditions it might have encountered. The battle of Anzio started in jan 44 and ran until June, so you could have wet muddy conditions or dry dusty ones.

The aftermarket for finishing techniques is pretty much as vast  as paint choices.  There is a product now for wet mud effects too - I've never tried them, and not sure how many brands out there, but here is one:

Try youtube for hints on any techniques, many people post there, plus name brands no doubt put things up there as vehicle to advertise their products.

regards,

Jack

Bish,

Yea, it seems that Panther was photographed in February of 1944.  Which matches with the fact that on February 16th Pz.Rgt.Stab 69, I./Pz.Rgt. 4, s.Pz.Abt. 508, Pz.Abt. 301, Stu.Pz.Abt. 216, and s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt. 525 received orders to began their offensive against the Allied positions at Anzio.  Although the ground looks relatively dry in that photo I./Pz.Rgt. 4 had just complete a road march of roughly 200km after offloading from their transport trains at Ficulle in central Italy.  Rough mountain roads on the way to the coast, I'd be willing to bet they encountered plenty of mud on the way there.

I may have to pick up some 1:35 armor on the cheap just to practice old mud buildup with.

Thanks Jack, I'll look into the Mig stuff!  

Sounds like you have the background covered. When ever i do a dio i try and consider what the vehcile may have been doing in the time before the scene i am setting.

Have you seen the images of the Panthers passing through Rome on their way to Anzio. They may help.

I don't believe I have actually.  I know that Regiment passed through Rome on the way to the beachead.

Oh, are you talking about these two photos?

From what I've been able to discover in 10 minutes of exercising my Google-fu, both photos are of I./Pz.Rgt. 4 on the way through Rome.

There are of course a few photos of a column of Panthers at Anzio.  But Pz.Rgt.Stab 69 was also there and had Panthers.  So outside of I02, I don't know which Panthers in those photos were also from I./Pz.Rgt. 4.

Ye, those are a couple of them. I did find one labeled Pz Rgt 4. But no matter the unit, they will give you a good idea of the condition of the vehciles at least after the march from train depot to Rome. None of them seem to show a heavy build up of mud, i imagine the route was mainly on hard roads. So any mud once at Anzio will be fresh.

You're right.  And the tracks of I02 look pretty clean as well.  My current thought is just some light dust/dirt buildup on the wheels, tracks, and schürzen.

baseing it on thoe images, thats what i would go for. If you wanted to show them in the battle area, then you can juist use your imagination and add more on top of that. My main rule is its always easier to add than it is to remove.

I think it's a safe bet they've already started engaging the US beachead.  There's a mobility killed Elefant in the background and I02 itself looks like it's suffered some damage with the burn marks on the rear hull and the zimmerit coated replacement storage box.

Concerning the weather, you can also check annual charts for the area.  Looking at Rome, the average precipitation from Jan. to April is under under 25mm per month, a bit of a spike in May, then it drops off dramatically until September.

http://www.holiday-weather.com/rome/averages/

Also considering the mountainous terrain around Ficulle, any rain that did fall would not sit on the surface but run off, assuming road network is not all level.

http://www.maplandia.com/italy/umbria/terni/ficulle/

regards,

Jack

jgeratic

Concerning the weather, you can also check annual charts for the area.  Looking at Rome, the average precipitation from Jan. to April is under under 25mm per month, a bit of a spike in May, then it drops off dramatically until September.

http://www.holiday-weather.com/rome/averages/

Also considering the mountainous terrain around Ficulle, any rain that did fall would not sit on the surface but run off, assuming road network is not all level.

http://www.maplandia.com/italy/umbria/terni/ficulle/

regards,

Jack

 

You know, i am glad i ain't the only one that try's and find info on weather conditions for a build.

I was actually going to look into weather averages Jack.  Thanks!  You guys are awesome!

No Bish, I'm disappointed that I can't find weather records for Italy earlier than 1948.