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USMC M50A1 ONTOS - National Museum of the Marine Corps

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  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, April 19, 2020 12:34 AM

That figure would be fine for later in the war. But yes, that is an Army hat, not the Marine Corps type. Also in summer 1965, I’m pretty sure that the Marines were still wearing the standard sateen cotton fatigues, and not the not the lighter poplin Jungle Fatigues. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, April 18, 2020 8:55 PM

Sergeant

 

 

There is a little problem with this figure though

 

Harold

 

Back view:

You would want a lot of putty to square up the back of that cover.

Also, the figure is scuplted with the cotton M-56 gear (and the extermely rare 20 round magazine ammo pouches).  And the M-56 "butt" back, too, being an issue.
USMC jumped from their cotton M-61 782 gear to the nylon LINCOE gear (M-67) right at 1968 or so.

Francois was an incredible entrepeneur, but, not always the best historian.  Title this figure as US Army PFC, Vietnam, and most of the sins vanish.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, April 18, 2020 1:30 AM

A truly remarkable and interesting conversation among people whom I greatly respect.

I might suggest that everyone's ideas about what t0 include have so much value.

Maybe a multi media display with a model, a plaque with a QR code and a linked facebook page?

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, April 18, 2020 12:51 AM

Tonight, I discovered an important issue with the pictures I post on this forum. Please see Set-A and Set-B below: Set-B is closer to what I see with my eyes, or slightly darker. Set-A is lighter and grayer in appearance and that is because of LED lighting I've been using for the last six months. Set-B is with no ambient light only camera flash.

Set-A

Set-B

  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posted by Bobstamp on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:23 PM

@Sergeant:

Sergeant
…Bob, please take a look at the picture below. Is that you in the middle top row? If so I'm standing to your left at the end of the top row.

Well, it is a small world, but not quite that small! I had to do a double take, but no, that's not my group of recruit petty officers. I was in boot camp in San Diego a few months before you, in Company 558, graduating in December, 1962. I didn't actually leave the Recruit Training Center until mid- to late-January; I chose to go on leave for Christmas and had to return to boot camp for two or three more weeks before heading for Hospital Corps School at Balboa Naval Hospital.

Here's my photo. I’m in the centre of the second row from the top:

Bob Ingraham and fellow Navy boot camp recruit petty officers

I'm one of those Vietnam vets who can't stop talking about the war! For years — decades! — I believed that my only wound was physical (through-and-through bullet wound that shattered my right femur), but insomnia, anger issues, anxiety, and digestion problems sent me to my doctor, who suggested that I see a psychiatrist, who diagnosed combat-related PTSD. I applied for compensation, and within a month or so my disability rating was raised from 20% to 40%. That extra income has helped a great deal — it's helped a lot to buy a lot of useful modelling tools and supplies. Thank you American tax payers!

Bob 

 

On the bench: A diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor), and a Pegasus model of the submarine Nautilus of 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas fame. 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, April 17, 2020 7:36 PM

Bob, Gamera, James, Glenn, TigerII, Carlos and Gino thank you all for giving this project so much attention and sharing your feelings and ideas. As you know I started out to give my close friend a diorama and it turned into a memorial to a fallen warrior that has much deeper meaning for Rae than I could have ever imagined.

As Bob and James so correctly stated above, we never know how someone will react to memories of the past. Within my circle of veteran friends some guys don't mind talking about their war experience and others don't want to talk about their service at all and yet they want to spend time with fellow veterans who understand what war is like. I want to show how small the model is compared to a man, but feel Rae is focused on honoring his men, which is the way I would want my commander to feel about the men who served under him.

Bob, please take a look at the picture below. Is that you in the middle top row? If so I'm standing to your left at the end of the top row.

  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posted by Bobstamp on Friday, April 17, 2020 6:53 PM

While it's true that flashbacks can result from any number of stimuli, even we veterans can't be sure what might result in our next flashback, much less anyone else's. My wife, who teaches fitness to older adults, was told when she was training that she should never play "sad songs" that might remind her students of loved ones who have passed.

My wife was quite troubled by that advice — she is a very empathetic person who would never knowingly cause emotional pain for anyone. But she decided that she cannot possibly know what song might be considered sad by her students, and decided to continue playing songs that best fit the exercises she is using. I get that.

I once went straight to fight-or-flight when I saw a guy carrying an M16 across the street in front of my apartment. That's a bit odd, because I never saw an M16 in Vietnam. I was a hospital corpsman serving with the Marines early in 1966, and the Marines were using M14s. In addition, I soon realized that the M16 I saw was a toy M16, about half the size of a real one.

My PTSD has also been triggered by a Vietnamese "peasant" wearing a conical straw hat in a style show that one of my Vietnamese students had invited me to, and by a scene in the TV show, Magnum P.I. But it would be pointless, and fruitless, for me to try to avoid seeing military rifles, black pyjamas and straw hats, and TV programs in case they trigger me. Fortunately, I've had enough psychotherapy to at least understand why I am so easily triggered, and what steps I can take to avoid the worst outcomes.

At the same time, if you are planning to give a military model to a veteran, it behooves you to try to determine from the veteran himself or herself, or from a family member, whether the gift might result in an unplanned outcome. Family members usually have a good sense of how trauma has affected their loved ones, and what gifts might be inappropriate. A gift I certainly would not want would be a diorama showing Marines in the middle of a firefight. Been there, done that, don't ever want to do it again!

It's also worth noting that the human mind is capable of great plasticity. I am currently building an Italeri UH-34 D Seahorse helicopter like the ones that ferried me into battle, out of battle, and to a hospital ship. No flashbacks, at least so far. Maybe if I make it sufficiently detailed…

Bob

P.S. Please do not thank me for my service. I didn't actually volunteer to go to Vietnam. I joined the Navy not even aware that hospital corpsmen could be seconded to the Marines. And, like most Americans at that time, I had no idea that what seemed like a minor guerrilla war in Southeast Asia would blow up into the Vietnam War. I did, however, believe in our mission, at least for a few days. I soon realized that nothing positive could come out of the war; I was fortunate to be badly wounded after only 37 days, while I was trying to care for a badly wounded Marine.  

Tags: Vietnam War , gift , PTSD

On the bench: A diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor), and a Pegasus model of the submarine Nautilus of 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas fame. 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, April 17, 2020 5:29 PM

I had an opportunity to meet with Captain Seely today and I asked him how Corporal Bosquet died. Rae said his Battalion deployed from Kane'ohe, Hawaii for operation Starlite in Vietnam and Corporal Bosquet was in Alpha Company, 3rd Anti-Tank Battalion, 3rd Marines. He was an ONTOS crew member and during battle dismounted the vehicle and stepped on a North Viet Cong IED, he was killed instantly.

I told Rae that we've been discussing in our forum whether or not to include a Marine figure in the display and Rae felt it would be enough to have a dedication plaque with the ONTOS model. He has a picture of the company in Hawaii with their ONTOS vehicles ready to deploy and Corporal Bosquet is in the photograph. I asked Rae if we could include the photograph and he thought that would be a good idea, but it's to large for the dome, so the glass dome will be displayed with the company photograph in a frame.

We also agreed that my ONTOS and his company photograph will be on display at our American Legion Post in Vancouver, Washington. Our Post was established in 1919 by World War One veterans and still has 481 members after 101 years. The majority of our veterans are Marine and Army and we have military artifacts from all the major wars including a World War One howitzer.

Below is the ONTOS in it's finished USMC green. I have a little more touch up to do before I remove the masking. Also the glass dome and unit pin should arrive next week, so I can see how large to make the brass dedication plaque.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:34 AM

I always like a figure standing beside the vehicle to show off the size.

Never thought of it bringing out some form of post-tramatic stress James though I can see where you're coming from. 

 

In any case Harold I'm interested in where you'll take her. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:53 AM

looking just great, Harold.

When doing a memorial of someone to be presented to someone else a figure can bring to the surface repressed and quite often unwanted memories. As soldier veterans get older our ability to deal with these lessen. just the vehicle and the plaque and pin is all that is needed in this case. things can be overdone.

think about the KISS acronym.

Just my thoughts, Harold. It is your project, but that Yellow Olive is just right!

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:52 PM
Just stunning work! I would have loved to have seen one of these beasts. Must not been around anyplace I was at or there just were not many deployed. I can just imaging riding that horse into town!

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 8:38 PM

That hat does look a little off.  I built an 8-point cap a while ago using small pieces of flat sheet styrene placed around a regular patrol cap with some putty to smooth it all out.  It made a pretty convincing 8-point cap.  I placed it on a Marine who went alongside the AFV Club LVTP-5 with a full scratch interior.  The piece was a present for my wife's uncle who was an LVTP-5 driver in his younger years.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 7:24 PM

HeavyArty

Harold, I see your point and intent, but still think a lone Marine figure in a nice 8-point hat would be acceptable as a tribute to Corporal Bosquet and show the miniscule size of Ontos.  I have done tribute models both ways and find the ones with a figure are more appreciated by the recipient.

 

Gino, below is the Marine figure I ordered for this ONTOS model. When it arrives, I will be able to see how everything is going to fit together. There is a little problem with this figure though, perhaps Verlinden was not sure what an 8-point cover looks like. I think the cover can be made to look more like a Vietnam era Marine with a little putty.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 5:22 PM

Harold, I see your point and intent, but still think a lone Marine figure in a nice 8-point hat would be acceptable as a tribute to Corporal Bosquet and show the miniscule size of Ontos.  I have done tribute models both ways and find the ones with a figure are more appreciated by the recipient.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 4:21 PM

snapdragonxxx

Hi Harold.

I think that with your choice of display case you should keep it very simple. Just polish the interior base and leave it the natural polished wood, put the Ontos in along with the pin (fixed) and then the top on.

 

Forget any grass, tree, Marine figure. This makes the Ontos and the pin the focal point along with any dedication and shines a light on an unusual vehicle.

Just MHO, mate!

 

I gave thought to your suggestion James and realized there is a difference between a model used in a diorama and a model used to commemorate a fallen warrior. I ordered the dome mentioned above and when it arrives, I will see how much room I have. I think you're right; it should be kept simple to focus attention on the purpose of the display. That being Corporal Bosquet and the ONTOS unit.

I intend to have a brass plaque made like the one shown below that will say: Presented to Captain Rae Seely USMC in memory of Corporal Robert G. Bosquet, AC Company, 3rd AT Battalion, 3rd Marines killed in action August 18, 1965. The plaque will need to be approximately 1.5" x 5" (two lines of text) so I have room for the unit pin at the end or below the plaque.

I have put two light coats of Vallejo #71.013 Yellow Olive on the model and expect to apply another two coats. Then I may need to use my air brush to get into some tight places on the hull detail.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 4:44 AM

Hi Harold.

I think that with your choice of display case you should keep it very simple. Just polish the interior base and leave it the natural polished wood, put the Ontos in along with the pin (fixed) and then the top on.

 

Forget any grass, tree, Marine figure. This makes the Ontos and the pin the focal point along with any dedication and shines a light on an unusual vehicle.

Just MHO, mate!

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, April 13, 2020 9:57 PM

Thank you Gamera and TigerII. This project has been a lot of fun.

Harold

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Monday, April 13, 2020 12:44 PM

I have located the official emblem for the 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines but I'm not sure how to locate either a pin or make a image that can be transferred to a dedication plaque. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Fortunately, the ONTOS kit has a decal for the 3rd Marine Division, but not the 3rd Marine Regiment.

I was just going to tell you that Sgt Grit had the pin you were looking for. I'm glad you found it.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, April 13, 2020 11:24 AM

Oh she looks fantastic all primed and ready. And that's going to be a very cool display. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, April 13, 2020 12:38 AM

I located the correct unit pin for the 3rd Battalion, of the 3rd Marines and ordered it from SGT GRIT online. I will find a way to incorporate the pin in the display. The next task is to find a suitable Marine figure to stand next to the ONTOS.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, April 12, 2020 5:36 PM

TigerII

I've just been watching the development of this project from the sidelines. Awesome work so far! Semper Fi.

 

Thank you James and Tiger II. I completed the third and final coat of Vallejo #74.601 Grey Surface Primer this morning. I'll give it 24 hours to dry and then I'm ready to start the finish coat of Vallejo #71.013 Yellow Olive.

As you know I told Captain Rae Seely I was doing this model as a gift for him. He asked me to dedicate it to a man in his company, Corporal Robert G. Bosquet, AC Company, 3rd AT Battalion, 3rd Marines who was killed in battle on August 18, 1965.

I have located the official emblem for the 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines but I'm not sure how to locate either a pin or make an image that can be transferred to a dedication plaque. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Fortunately, the ONTOS kit has a decal for the 3rd Marine Division, but not the 3rd Marine Regiment or Battalion.

Also, it's time to start thinking about how to display the ONTOS. As I mentioned before I plan to have some ground cover and possibly a small tree with a Marine standing next to the ONTOS in the display. I selected a glass dome with an oak base that measures 8" x 8", please see below. The interior of the dome is 7.75" wide by 7.75" high. The dome begins to arch at approximately 4.75". The ONTOS model is 4.5" long by 3 inches wide by 5" high at the top of the antenna. The turntable I use for painting is 7.5" diameter.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Sunday, April 12, 2020 5:27 PM

Looking Good, Harold

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Sunday, April 12, 2020 2:30 PM

I've just been watching the development of this project from the sidelines. Awesome work so far! Semper Fi.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:09 PM

HeavyArty

Looking great.  With all the detail you added on the interior, you have to show it all opened up.  Looking forward to seeing it all painted up.

 

Thank you, Gino for the support. Finally, after five weeks of assembly and interior painting I'm ready for exterior primer. I have the hull glued together and the openings masked off. I'll give the hull two or three light coats of Vallejo #74.601 Grey Surface Primer. I want to avoid paint build up to preserve the detail provided by all the photo-etched parts.

Harold

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, April 10, 2020 7:44 PM

Looking great.  With all the detail you added on the interior, you have to show it all opened up.  Looking forward to seeing it all painted up.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, April 10, 2020 7:37 PM

I gave the white interior a light pin-wash with Vallejo #76.514 Dark Brown. I'm not sure how dirty to make the interior but looking at the interior through the open hatches and doors it seems about right to me for a combat vehicle at rest.

I have also decided to finish the model with all hatches and doors opened, so the interior can be seen from every direction. I will place at least one Marine figure alongside the ONTOS to help show how small the vehcle actually is compared to a man.

The next step is to mask off the hatches and doors, glue the upper and lower hulls together and attach the rear doors. Then attach mud flaps to the rear fenders.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, April 6, 2020 4:33 PM

Sergeant

 

James (Snapdragonxxx) asked me to confirm with Captain Rae Seely, USMC that Vallejo color #71.013 (FS34052) is the correct shade of green for Vietnam era Marine Corp tactical vehicles. Captain Seely who served in an ONTOS unit in Hawaii and Vietnam confirmed #71.013 is the right color and mentioned once a vehicle was in combat it never looked the same.

One of the reasons is a 'Marine Corp wash' was done with diesel fuel not soap and water and the original factory color was made darker by the diesel fuel. Also the ONTOS had light armor and was often hidden in the jungle and used to ambush the North Viet Cong, so according to Captain Seely it received a lot of wear and tear on the exterior paint.

One other thing I noticed while showing Rae the photographs Carlos (Stikpusher) provided is the inside of the doors and hatches were painted the same as the exterior. As Rae indicated the ONTOS was often hidden in the foliage to ambush the North Viet Cong and a white hatch cover that was opened would stand out in the jungle.

I also received the Vallejo Model Wash colors I ordered: #76.518 Black, #76.514 Dark Brown, #76.523 European Dust, #76.521 Oiled Earth, #76.513 Marron Brown, #76.505 Light Rust and #76.522 Desert Dust. I picked these colors thinking they would give me a good range to start from in weathering the ONTOS. So the next step is to dirty up the interior a little then glue the upper and lower hulls together.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 30, 2020 5:05 PM

I doubled the size of my paint booth in preparation for the next project. The ONTOS looks mighty small in this 33" Wide x 15" Deep space.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 30, 2020 3:49 PM

M60_ tanker

I too, spent many years in the Army. Being anal retentive was part of the job. I try to keep weathering down to a mininum. Drives me crazy when I see a tank or other vehicle and it looks like it has just been drug out of a swap after 50 years. Especially M60 tanks. My bread and butter for 10 years of my life. Sorry for the rant.

Ray

 

Ray it's nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks

Harold

  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, March 30, 2020 3:46 PM

I too, spent many years in the Army. Being anal retentive was part of the job. I try to keep weathering down to a mininum. Drives me crazy when I see a tank or other vehicle and it looks like it has just been drug out of a swap after 50 years. Especially M60 tanks. My bread and butter for 10 years of my life. Sorry for the rant.

Ray

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

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