M3 Lee Progress(looking for guidance)

Nice work so far Ben.

As to weathering, well you will get a lot of different advice on this. From Me:

You need to apply the decals before starting the weathering process. Before adding the decals spray the vehicle with some light coats of Future Floor Wax to seal the paint and give you a smooth base to add the decals. This will help stop the decals from silvering (a milky grey shine from air trapped under the decal). Future is water based so will not effect the enamels - don't thin the Future though. When the Future is dry add the decals and then once the decals are applied and dry, use a mix of 70% Future and 30% Tamiya Flat base and spray that in light coats to seal the decals and restore a flat finish. Allow that to harden for at least 2 days. This will allow you to apply washes.

A wash is paint that has been thinned up to 95% depending on the effect you want to achieve. The idea is that the wash is applied with a wide bristle brush, and being thin, the colour will run to the grooves, and edges of protruding parts, but will not gather on the flat surface. I use artists oil paints thinned with white spirit or enamel thinners myself, but others use artists acrylics, etc. Basic colours to use are Raw Umber for a dark wash, Raw Umber and Yellow Ochre mixed together for lighter coats, and Burnt Sienna for darker rust streaks, petrol spills, etc. The oil paint should not effect the Future Floor wax finish.

Apply the wash sparingly, but if you apply too much just use some kitchen towel to soak up the excess straight away. For areas like joins between hatches and mounts, etc, just add a little black to the Umber wash and using a fine pointed brush just touch the brush to the join so the paint will flow around the join using capilary action. Leave the wash to dry for 48 hours.

Next is dry brushing. For this you can use artists paints or enamel paints. I find acrylic paints (Tamiya, etc) don't work well. The idea of dry brushing is you scoop a little paint pigment (don't mix it, leave the runny medium behind) onto a piece of card, and let the excess medium soak into the card. This leaves just the pigment colour. Using a wide flat brush, dip the end in the pigment and then wipe off most of the paint on a rag. You need just a hint of paint on the brush. Then gently brush the tip of the brush over the model so that the colour transfers to the raised detail on the model (ie the rivets) after a few passes. The idea is that it will be added subtly, so one pass should not deposit the paint or result in streaks.

Start dry brushing with the base colour, as the future and wash will have darkened that. Then lighten that colour (yellow works best for OD) and dry brush a little more gently with that. Keep lightening and dry brushing the detail in ever lighter strokes. The idea is that the really light colour should be on the top of the detail, with gradually darker shades going back closer to the surface.

This is the basics, and you should start there. When you are comfortable with that you try applying pastel chalks, filters, shading, wear and tear etc. See this link for details on these methods.
http://missing-lynx.com/rareworld.htm

It looks like Petbat has you all set up!
Keep us posted with your progress.

Another alternative that works well and achieves the same result as Peter outlines is to use Glosscoat in place of the future...spray the Glosscoat, apply your decals (I also recommend using a Decal Solvent solution to insure the decals lay down and adhere well to the surface) apply a second Glosscoat, then do your washes as Peter outlines.

Whichever method you use, the key is to seal in your basecoat prior to doing any washes. If you used enamel basecoat, seal with an enamel lacquer like MM Glosscoat and then apply acrylic washes (water colors also work for this). If you used an acrylic basecoat, seal it with Future or an acrylic lacquer and then use oil-based/enamel paints as your wash medium.

If you don't seal in the basecoat, you may be in for a nasty surprise depending. The last thing you want is to see it shrivel up into little paint curds and stip off the model!

let me say first the build looks good. crisp and clean. peter has outlined weathering very well and bill has added some great advice. look forward to seeing this post weathering.


joe

thats a great site petbat, ill have to try some of those techniques

Wow thanks for the replies. I will definitely try to work on some of the tips you all gave me. In fact I sent the wife out to the grocery store for some "Future". Hah she thinks I want to work on cleaning the kitchen floor! I am eager to try out the new airbrush/compressor I got yesterday too. I picked up a Craftsmen 1.5 hp 3 gallon compressor and a Paasche VL airbrush. I also bought a lot of Model Master Acylic paints. I have in the past tried to use enamals but I ruined my Aztek brush because I failed to clean it properly (easy cleaning my arse!!)
All in all I think I cought the modelling fever because while I was at my LHS I picked up a Tamiya 1/35 FLAK 36 , a PAK 40, and a Jeep. I also managed to pick up some various infantry and cans and crates.

Ben
*EDIT* HEY I just wanted to point out that I made that antena from a piece of spare sprue. I just held it under a lighter and stretched it out.. I know it isn't a big deal but I thought it worked out well.

Just thought I would post some progress pics. It's the least I can do in return for the assistance you all provided me with.

It really isn't THAT shiny. I think it has to do with a combination of the lighting in the room and the flash on the camera.




I haven't put the decal on where the shovel is because I can't figure out how I could get it in there. Besides the surface isn't very flat at all what with the brackets for the shovel and all.

I have also run into another problem. One of the end wheels (the circle one not the one with all the spokes) has gotten a bit too weak to handle the tension caused by the tracks. Whenever I try to put the track on it bends very noticably. I might try drilling a hole in it and reinforcing it with a piece of copper or other tubular metal. I guess this is why everyone always talks about how handy dremels are.

Anyway tell me what you all think. You won't hurt my feelings if you think it's terrible but I am pretty satisfied so far.

Thanks
Ben

Just another small update...started trying to work on some weathering. I will have to lay it on thicker but the effect so far looks pretty good.

Embark,

I am glad to say that I am also a somewhat new plastic modeler (old RC airplane buff) and over the past year have put together a 1/35 Panther and a 1/35 M3 Lee. I have not considered them complete because I do not know the first thing about painting. I came here to find out what others thought and the first thing I saw was your post here about an M3. Im delighted to see that I am not alone in the world of paint and hope that you will continue to post your pics for your M3 so I may have some help in making mine look equally as good.

And thanks for the ideas petbat, as soon as my generic started airbrush set comes in the mail, im going to try some of those techniques.

The BIGGEST question I have is this.. When you come to paint something, how far do you need to break it down? I assume you took both of the turrets off when you painted it? Or did you paint the pieces before you glued them together? I am really scared about that because ive just started on my 1/16 Full Function Tiger 1 and DO NOT want to mess that one up.

Thanks again.

Ok I got the thing dirty now...take a look and tell me what you think

DrewBlue,
It's hard to tell what to paint when sometimes. Especially being new like me. I can tell you from putting this thing togather that I would paint the wheels before you assemble them. Also leave off all of the tools till last. Then when you get everything else togather paint it the base coat color. The olive drab is pretty easy because there is no camo scheme. With this model I wanted to make it look like it was in the North African Theatre and I plan on trying to put it in some sort of diorama. Thats why I laid the dirt on so thick. I am pretty pleased with the results so far.

Yes, i am pleased with your dirt effect as well.

I guess i am in a corner with the tools and roadwheels... Ill try to make do when my new airbrush gets here.

So glue doesnt have a problem sticking to paint? I guess the basic 101 parts of painting just flew right over my head. :)

Keep up the great work. When i do mine, i will post some pics so you can help me out.

Glue has a big problem bonding with paint. I just scrape the paint off of where the 2 parts come togather. I use all my wifes old emory boards to do my sanding. You know the ones with the 6 different grits on them. Makes life much easier.

Embark,

Looks like you are definitely making some good progress! The only thing I'd mention is that the North African theater (Tunisia, Kasserine Pass) where the American units operated was a relatively dry desert climate. I thought you'd captured the dry dusty look very well in your first set of weathering pics. The second set looks more of the muddy/crusty look you might see from operating in wetter conditions. Somewhere in the middle is probably best if you still intend to place this one in the NA theater. Just my 2 cents, you've done an excellent job on the weathering and painting in general.

Wbill76,
Thank you for your comments. I agree that I may seem to have overdone the look a little bit but I still have a flat clear coat to spray over this one so it may tone it down somewhat. All of this really has been a learning experience for me and I tried out as many different types of weathering on this model as I thought I could get away with. My next one is going to be an M3 Stuart. I think I will be able to take what I have learned here and do great things with that one. All in all I really don't know where to go from here on this model. I think I will take a break for a couple of days and look at some pictures to get a better idea.

Well I have added the mix of future and flat coat that petbat suggested and put the tracks on. I took all the tools off of the tank and painted them. I also added some "burlap" looking covers to both the main guns. When everything dries up and I can tone down the shine a little I wll post pics of the results.

Fine job Ben, I agree with Bill's comments on the weathering. Still, you're doing well for your first armor model. Keep it up.

Tigerman,
I appreciate your kind words and constructive critisism. One question for you. I understand that I overdid the effect a bit for this to be placed in the North Afrikan Theatre. But since I cannot seem to reverse the effects, does the job look convincing of a muddy tank? I thought that if I caked it a little bit more and a bit darker around the wheels and the bottom of the hull that I would be able to take a mistake I made and make the best of it.

Again I appreciate everyones comments and suggestions. I am very proud of this tank even if it isnt perfect. The only other thing I have ever put together was a revell 1/48 P40 and you all dont even want to see that thing. I built it in something like 2 hours and brush painted it all silver lol.

Well, I myself have never done a muddy tank, but my observations say that the lower hull, especially the track area, would be cakey mud so to speak. I don't think the mud would have gotten all over the turret and upper hull area, though I suppose some might. You are headed in the right direction. Are you planning on a diorama?

Nice job for your first build. Whilst there were some areas in North Africa that got a little muddy (usually near oasis) the boys are right about the amount you have on your vehicle, but not to worry. Mud usually congregates around the track area, mudguards, rear hull, etc. If the vehicle is following closely behind another, mud will be thrown up all over the front hull, and depending how high, the turret might get a splash. The track face will usuallt have mud in teh recessed areas, but the tread plate/riser/cleats would be relatively clean - just watch a bulldozer operate next time you see one.

You might consider a little mud in the spoked area of the road wheels, as the tracks would not scrape that away.

Unless the vehicle is still travelling in thick mud, the face of the road wheels would be a muddy colour, but rolling over the tracks would ensure only a thin flat layer of mud would adhere.

Thanks for showing us the pics.

Well at this point I am not really sure. I just wanted to make this thing look as good as I possible can. Knowing that I cannot go back to a clean tank ....I just wanted to make the best of a bad situation. Or do you think it best to just leave well enough alone and look to future builds to apply the things I learned on this one. I guess what I am trying to say is I think I am my own worst critic...I wanted this thing to turn out perfect and when I made a mistake I feel like I let myself down a bit...I know that sounds a little stupid so maybe I should just lighten up. I will get it right one of these builds lol

No such thing as mistakes in modelling!
Only "opportunities!"
I think your build looks fine so far, Ben. I don't think a tank can ever be "too dirty," although, like Tigerman, I rarely "muddy up" my vehicles. I like dusty!

Keep up the good work, and please let us see your Lee when you're finished.

I think you've done a fine job building your Lee, and you've been open to suggestions and techniques that will go along ways in improving what you have already accomplished. We all want to build that perfect model so you are not alone in being your own worst judge of our work. Like the guys said, you're on the right track and for someone with first time experience, you've done just great. Your skills will improve and this project is just the beginning. Enjoy your modelling and don't take yourself to seriously. Look forward to seeing more of your work and watching you grow with the rest of us. Semper Fi, mike

Personally, I think that tank would look great as if it was coming from the Burma campaign. It looks so much like some pics of tanks I've seen from there. So, in reference to that Theater of Operations, I do believe that you've achieved Perfection!

Embark,so far so good.The decals that you have on there go perfect with the Phillpines during the begining of the war also the mud affect.Now you need to do is to add some bare steel and rust around the handles,revits and on the underside of the front mantel of the sprockets.You also need to paint your cable steel and while it is still wet,take a dry brush of rust and work it in good to show a weathering affects on steel.The same gos for the tools on the parts that get used all the time.Also take some wood or tan color and dry brush it on the tool handles,like the axe,shovel and ect..this shows some useage.Use steel to paint your mg barrels and while wet with a medium dry brush add some ft.black to it and mix it good.As far as the tracks go paint them steel and while wet brush in some rust with a dry brush on the outside edges and inbetween the rubber blocks.Don't do the inside of the tracks with rust as the road wheels and sprockets al ways were the rust out.To daul down the steel and rust use a very thined out wash of ft.black and this will dual it down,use your wash on the inside of the tracks to.Once this is done you can drity it up some more to your liking and watch the majic happen.Remember you cannot drity a tank up enoughf,they alway look drity just like a semi going down the road during winter.Digger

Digger,
Yeah I did go back and painted all the tools and the MG barels. The effect is pretty good so far. I painted the barrels flat black and brushed on some Model Master gunmetal which looks pretty convincing. I had to pry off the the tools and paint them. The ones I couldn't get off I painted while still attached. I also went out and got some cloth at the craft store and painted it a brownish tan color. I pulled some of the thread out of the cloth and painted that a slightly darker shade of brown and made covers for both the main guns. I sprayed the mix of future and flat coat that you guys suggested earlier but it still have a slight sheen to it. I might have to go back over it with nothing but the flat coat although I dont know whether I should thin it out or not. The tracks are also on now too but they arent finished with the weathering effects.

Thanks again for the reply

Ben

Do not want to rain on your parade, but......

Well, you have done an EXCELLENT job on the model and weathering, but the tracks are wrong. The ends of the tracks are suppose to between the shoes, not on each shoe. Tamiya messed-up!!!

If you want to be "acurrate" get a set of tracks from the Testors/Italeri kit. Much more accurate. If I can find my tracks from my M4 I will let you have them. I dropped my Sherman long time ago and it broke. So I do not need the tracks.

Tanker3,
I found this website that has some pictures of both lees and grants.http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/m3ph_1.htm
http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/Images/leeph_1.jpg

Looking at the tracks they seem to be the same ones that I have modelled. If there is something small I am missing, please let me know and I will see what I can do to make it as accurate as possible. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention but since I am not the grog that some others in this forum seem to be, I cannot tell a difference.

Thanks Again
Ben

Very Good Embark....some weathering with pastel chalk and warning ... the uniform is brightness...use some matt varnish
That´s it...congratulations...
Cheers