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Panzer Kampfwagen IV with 88mm Flak 36

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by T26E4 on Monday, March 19, 2007 8:47 AM
Hi Hermes: Expanding on your list, you're correct about the KwK (vehicle guns), Flak (AA guns) and Paks (AT guns).  However, you omitted field artillery.  They were in these general classes:
 
IG: infantry geschutz (e.g. 7.5cm leIG18 (light inf gun 18), 15cm sIG 33 (heavy inf gun 33 -- not Sturminfanteriegschutz))
 
Haubitze: howitzer (e.g. 10.5cm leFH18 (light field howitzer 18))
 
Kanonne: cannon (e.g. 10cm K18 (10cm cannon model 18)
 
And other larger classes, too. 

Roy Chow 

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  • Member since
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  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Monday, March 19, 2007 7:31 AM

Yeah, there are many different designations for different types of German artillery.

KwK means kampfwagenkanone or literally vehicle-mounted gun.

FlaK comes from fliegerabwehrkanone or aircraft-defense gun.

PaK from panzerabwehrkanone or tank-defense gun.

SiG from sturminfanteriegeschuetz or assault support cannon,

LeFH from leichteFeldHaubitze or light field howitzer. 

 

Now, I don't want to see anymore wrong designationsSmile [:)]

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by T26E4 on Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:34 PM

 Model Maniac wrote:
155mm really? I don't know for sure, just guesstimated its caliber from model kit that I have. ;-)

 

Yes, the Bison I and Bison II mounted the 15cm sIG 33.  By the way, "Pak" means anti tank gun.  There were many artillery pieces that were not dedicated anti tank guns and therefore, not classified as "PAKs"

 

HTH 

Roy Chow 

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  • Member since
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  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:24 PM

The gun of the Bison has less than half the powder charge of the 88mm shell of the FlaK 36/37. Size in mm isn't everything; the high-velocity 75mm gun of the Pather was more effective than the 85mm gun of the T-34/85. The shock from firing the FlaK 88 mounted on the Panzer IV, if the elevation was anywhere near horizontal, could esily have been enough to tip the vehicle. A somewhat similar attempt was made to mount a 75mm KwK 42 L/70 on a SdKfz 251 halftrack, and the first time they fired it it tipped the halftrack over on its side.

Very interesting model, I might build one sometime. 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:22 PM
Not a bad estimation.    Sorry, I was still sleepy when I wrote earlier.Sleepy [|)] The good calibre is 150mmWink [;)]

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
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  • From: Thailand
Posted by Model Maniac on Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:56 PM
155mm really? I don't know for sure, just guesstimated its caliber from model kit that I have. ;-)

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  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:14 AM
 Model Maniac wrote:

You know the Bison I? That's 10.5cm Pak on top of Panzer I. If the Panzer I could withstand the shock of the Pak then why couldn't Panzer IV withstand the shock of the Flak? Just my 2 cents.

It was a 150mm sIG 33 heavy infantry gun. I have a video of this one in action in France, and that little Panzer I chassis is boucing quite a bit Laugh [(-D]

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
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  • From: Thailand
Posted by Model Maniac on Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:53 AM

Thanks for your comments, Carves. You know the Bison I? That's 10.5cm Pak on top of Panzer I. If the Panzer I could withstand the shock of the Pak then why couldn't Panzer IV withstand the shock of the Flak? Just my 2 cents.

Maybe the projectile crates should not be on the tank. It's not part of the tank same as the figures. I used them to complement the scene, to make a stand-alone armor look more like a dio. 

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Posted by Carves on Saturday, March 17, 2007 9:23 AM

Indeed that that is a rather interesting tank.

A Panzer IV with a Flak 88 mount on the top of it. Very interesting.

But.... I wonder will the Panzer IV body can withstand the shock when the Flak fired ? Also wont the Flak 88 can tip of from the Panzer IV body ?

---
Ben

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Thailand
Posted by Model Maniac on Friday, March 16, 2007 11:24 AM
rudedog, Chakraphad knew that there are conversion kits for Famo 88mm, but he just wanted to do it by himself. I'm glad that my kit stash has freed you from feeling guilty. As an economist, I've always viewed my kits as assets. When you buy them, you just change from cash to assets. Go buy more tomorrow! ;-)

m1garand, many thanks for your kind words!

subfixer, Chakraphad knew this site long time ago. I've told him about the responses to his work on Finescale in a local webboard. He called this evening having read them already. I think he's proud and very glad. You may see more now if you haven't seen them before. I have a special page on 12 scratch-built armors built by him, mostly modern Russian armors. Here's the link :
http://www.falconbbs.com/model26f.htm

Impressive Songs:

All 10 Playlists that I created on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ModelManiacThailand/playlists

Pan Flute Music (300 songs) (Most Popular, over 100K views):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNb2zPxGTZO7alagEPsEMzgBkWt4-vKV

El Condor Pasa (Top 50) (World's most famous and my most favorite song):

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNb2zPxGTZOLKHbju350mLle4HkMhsb8

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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, March 16, 2007 6:26 AM
Hey Maniac, do you ever show Chakraphad this website and the compliments he receives on his work? He would be very proud as I am sure you are of him. Keep them coming, I look forward to seeing more.

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  • From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posted by m1garand on Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:47 PM

This I haven't seen before.  Interesting and intriguing.  nicely painted.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: west springfield,mass
Posted by rudedog on Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:41 PM

I MUST THANK YOU ALSO.I WENT TO YOUR SITE & THE 1ST PAGE ENDS IN YOUR UNBUILT MODELS IN YOUR WORKSHOP.i NOW FEEL TOTALLY JUSTIFIED IN MY NEXT DOZEN OR SO MODEL PURCHASES. I'M JUST A MERE PIKER COMPARED TO YOUR STASH. YOU HAVE FREED ME FROM MY SELF IMPOSED GUILT.I REMEMBER NOW WHAT AN OLD LIFER SAID WHEN I WAS IN THE

 CORP'S,HIS MOTTO WAS " I NEVER SAW AN ARMORED CAR FOLLOWING A HEARSE " . TOMMOROW SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD DAY.MY PAYDAY [ ONCE A MONTH ] AND 4 TO FIVE MODELS I'VE BEEN PUTTING OFF BUYING CUZ OF THEIR COST [ ALL RESIN ] . !!!!!!!! TAKECARE,RUDEDOG

"...That's an order,not a debate topic , Sergeant Rudzik..."

  • Member since
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  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:37 PM
 Gun Tech wrote:

 beav wrote:
OH those germans, why can't they just standardize their vehicles instead of having over 100 different vehicles....\

 

That's what I like the most about german vehicles from WWII. Diversity.

Not to mention how it keeps the model companies in business, what with having to produce 15 variants of each kit, and schlepps like me who have to have all of them.  Wink [;)]

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:24 PM

 beav wrote:
OH those germans, why can't they just standardize their vehicles instead of having over 100 different vehicles....\

 

That's what I like the most about german vehicles from WWII. Diversity.

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: west springfield,mass
Posted by rudedog on Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:38 PM
Hi Model Maniac.Your friend is 1 serious scratch bldr. !!!!!!!! I know there are many resin companies makin the 88mm/FAMO conversions [I've got a Calibre 35 one] and between that 1 & others were hot items,judging how fast they all came in & outa stock.That bein said I truly wonder why 1 of the big Mfgr's, Tamiya especially,since they allready have the tooling for both gun & truck, haven't made 1.They're missing a home run in sales.     Semper Fi ,  rudedog

"...That's an order,not a debate topic , Sergeant Rudzik..."

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: Essex, UK
Posted by FingersEddie on Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:57 AM
Some great work here! Nice one!
"Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country is doin' to you!" "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." "Say 'NO' to censorship, it leads to a dictatorship!" http://public.fotki.com/paulyrichard/
  • Member since
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  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:40 AM
OH those germans, why can't they just standardize their vehicles instead of having over 100 different vehicles....Look at the US, we have been fighting a war for an equivilent amount of time, but we still are using our MBT from 198- and our other combat vehicles are the same (with additons of the stryker and up-armored humvees) Why couldn't the germans just have waited 5 years and then invaded poland with panthers...

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by T26E4 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:00 AM

There was a project to place an 8.8cm Flak onto a tracked tank chassis. 

It was to use a modified chassis, the Pz ISfl IVc .  The lone example was delayed until Nov '43.  By Jan '44, it was reasoned that it was ineffective to protect tank columns and ordered to be abandoned. Originally using the Flak 41 in field trials, its gun was replaced by a Flak 37 and even sent to a unit in Italy (Flak Abt 304 of the 26.PD).  (from Jentz' Panzer Tracts 12)

I believe the modeller in this thread is doing his rendition of a very bizarre vehicle photographed in captured tank yard postwar.  It shows a Pz IV ausf G(?) with its entire fighting compartment superstructure removed and a Flak 37 placed there.  Besides two pictures, nothing else has emerged.  It was obviously some field job. 

 

Roy Chow 

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  • Member since
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:45 AM

Very interesting vehicle.

Anyone know the designation and a place to get some basic info on it?

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Thailand
Posted by Model Maniac on Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:05 AM

Many thanks for all kind comments and compliments and suggestions on the model! They're very encouraging!

T26E4, thanks for correcting me. I should have left out the number and used just "w/ 88mm Flak" instead.

rudedog, 'Chakraphad' - the builder of this kit - is a vivid researcher and No.1 Scratch-builder of Thailand. He's built dozen of modern Russian armors and some German WWII for Mr. Narupol my friend who's another big collector. This one is quite simple when compared to his former one - The Famo w/ 88mm Flak : He also build two more Famo w/ 88mm Flak variants for Mr. Narupol.

sterene, I will pass on your suggestions to Chakraphad. Or maybe I'll tell him to come and read here. Unlike most other modelers, he's capable of some English. He'll get his MBA in May.

Impressive Songs:

All 10 Playlists that I created on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ModelManiacThailand/playlists

Pan Flute Music (300 songs) (Most Popular, over 100K views):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNb2zPxGTZO7alagEPsEMzgBkWt4-vKV

El Condor Pasa (Top 50) (World's most famous and my most favorite song):

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNb2zPxGTZOLKHbju350mLle4HkMhsb8

  • Member since
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  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:15 PM
Interresting.........   if it is supposed to represent the 8.8cm FlaK auf Sonderfahrgestell, the base vehicle would have been a modified panzer IV,     but it's still a very good and interresting attempt at it.

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 1:23 PM

Interesting kit! And a nice paint job, too. 

You might want to consider getting rid of the ejector pin marks on the back of the 88's gun shield, and the two huge pin marks on the side shields on the Panzer IV.  In addition, the forward traverse or elevation wheel is canted, and there appears to be a seam on the auto loader just above the left knee of the pointing soldier.  But I guess I'm just being picky.

(By the way, I really like the paint job on his uniform....)

Gip

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:20 AM
Zoinks!  Shock [:O]  Now THAT is cool, and very nicely done I might add!  Cool [8D]

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: west springfield,mass
Posted by rudedog on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:30 AM
Hi there Model Maniac.That's a really cool vehicle.Is it real or just an incarnation of yours ? If it's legit,Who's the manufacturot ? I'd guess trumpeteer or Dragon,since they're cranking out so much unseen stuff lately.Regardless,you did a great job on it.   Semper Fi  ,  rudedog

"...That's an order,not a debate topic , Sergeant Rudzik..."

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by T26E4 on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:34 AM

Interesting model!  Thnx for posting.  That's an 8.8cm Flak 37 by the way (the dials distinguishe the two versions).

 

 

Roy Chow 

Join AMPS!

http://www.amps-armor.org

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Thailand
Panzer Kampfwagen IV with 88mm Flak 36
Posted by Model Maniac on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:16 AM

Tamiya's Panzer Kampfwagen IV with 88mm Flak 36 - by "Chakraphad"

For more pics please visit my latest page :

http://www.falconbbs.com/model33d.htm

Have fun!

Impressive Songs:

All 10 Playlists that I created on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ModelManiacThailand/playlists

Pan Flute Music (300 songs) (Most Popular, over 100K views):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNb2zPxGTZO7alagEPsEMzgBkWt4-vKV

El Condor Pasa (Top 50) (World's most famous and my most favorite song):

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNb2zPxGTZOLKHbju350mLle4HkMhsb8

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