I just posted the picture for discussion purposes, not as an end all, be all answer. I belong to the "looks close enough" school. Our perceptions have been clouded by what we see in museums and displays, movies and even modern olive green colors. Each adds its own misconceptions to our perceptions.

Roy, I understand the concept completely. And I have seen more Olive Drab, and shades thereof in my personal and professional life than I can count... most all of it different depending, lighting, age, condition of the item, etc.... In all honesty I dont trust all these computer images one bit. There is a fellow over on an aircraft website that I frequent who plays computer voodoo magic with WWII color photos and makes pronoucements as to the shade of color chosen that leave me shaking my head. I am sure he has wonderful computer skills. But knowing all the variables that can occur from film type, lighting conditions, aging of film/print color shift, photograhic paper, quality, etc, I indeed do not not take one photo as the last word on how to paint any piece of military hardware. I will stick to my preferred shades of OD and freinds and go from there...

I was just suprised at how green that OD looked under those lighting conditions, on my computer monitor, in that pic. I sure wish I could see it with my own Mk.I eyeball under a clear blue sky and sunlight for my own.

You ought to see a discussion on "accurate aircraft interior green". There's no such animal.

Interesting post to kick back to the top. I've been using Model Master Acrylic OD for years until I read an article where Zaloga stated that it's far too greyish-green and should be more of a brownish-green. I'm not a big stickler on getting the paint perfect but I've been using lightened Tamiya instead of the MM lately.

As to the pink T34 it is a Soviet tank- will I get banned for use of the term 'commie pinko' here???

Stikpusher: Rob's picture is very interesting but no photo like this should be taken as the final word on how one should paint a tank.  Lighting conditions (and frankly our computer monitors) will vary the hue of any photo.

Have a look here and see if your opinion changes

http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/colourPerception/colourPerception.html

minimortar

redleg12:

Unless you paint it pink (hummm...)

Not a Sherman but... I think that the Tamiya Pink would be too light for the base coat...

Ouch that hurt!

Ohhhh baaabyyyyy....... I feel the need to borescope and pullover this fine example of armor..... Now that's a crew served weapon!!

......         ...... The beatings continue until morale improves

Wayne...no explain, just enjoy

Rounds Complete!! 

redleg12

Unless you paint it pink (hummm...)

Not a Sherman but... I think that the Tamiya Pink would be too light for the base coat...

Ouch that hurt!

That looks very green! More in line with say Humbrol's Light Olive than Olive Drab... Excellent photo!!!

Another ancient thread brought up by a new visitor.

Any way, here's a photo of the M4A3E2 Jumbo named Cobra King that was undergoing restoration at Knox. The paint behind the VVSS bogey was preserved when the bogey was removed. It doesn't look bad for 65 year old paint.

I found this article by Steve Zaloga about OD very helpful

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4536

Seems I'm the only person here that likes Model Master OD,  but I prefer enamel. The MM OD seems to be lighter than the Tamiya OD, it seems easier for me to fade out and weather.

Hi George,
I asked the very same question some time ago, you can follow the thread here;
/forums/t/117265.aspx

I have spent hours mixing paints to make sure they match a chip - fully realizing that the chip is visualized in a computer with all the depending issues relating to that.
Even research at museums will be hampered by the same problems - the documentation you bring with back has the same flaws.

I also realize that the actual colour will vary with manufacturer, age, weather, daylight.
I still want to get it as close as possible to a trustworthy reference.
I feel that only then I can start deteriorating

When using Tamiya Acrylics I go with 1 part XF-60 Dark Yellow 2 part XF-62 Olive Drab as suggested by several experts.

Remember the truth is in the eye of the beholder... being you.
At the end of the day it has to look right.

Kind Regards
Uto 

I really liked the "Badda-Boom, Badda-Bing" part, which is actually "Badda-Bing, Badda-Boom", due to the smashing final effect.

And talking of effects, I greatly admired your photo renditions on this post.

Very good looking models... Bravo! And as said, "Badda-Bing, Badda-Boom!"

Do more. I am still learning the high skills of weathering, but you are certainly confident with it.

the doog wrote:

Not to single out constructor's reply here, but I find it curious and remarkable that we all seem to agree that the exact shade of OD doesn't really matter--kind of a "ballpark" thing--but yet we'll go on and on and round and round sometimes debating the "exact" colors of the well-known German colors like Panzer Gray, Dark Yellow, or Primer Red! Has anyone else been hit by that?!

Yes, I've noticed this trend...not only here, but on numerous modeling forums. There are and will always be modelers who continually stive for perfect color matches. I personally feel exactly the same way about U.S. OD as I do about any color used in WWII. Unless building a specific vehicle with "fairly good" color pictures/film reference or an accurate written description of the colors, I generally don't fret about the base colors used on any of these vehicles. If I were actually restoring vehicles, I'd definitely feel differently, but not when building models.  

Thanks to everyone for the information.

George 

constructor wrote:

I agree with Crockett. The OD gets buried in the weathering anyway. Unless you make a museum quality build (like its out of the factory) then the OD will not make much of a difference.

Has anyone else been hit by that?!

m1garand wrote:

Also, keep in mind that paints were supplied by different manufacturers and there were some differences from one batch from the other.  Like what RedLeg12 said, unless these vehicles were painted at the same depot and by the same crew and paints were from exact same batch, you'll see different shades of colors.

And the variances in the tint or tone of a color will often appear in different batches from the same manufacturer.  When I was first married, I worked in a retail store owned by a major paint producer and constantly had problems matching different batches (whether custom mixed in the store or direct from the manufacturer).  We had an empty nester who was remodeling her home order some very hi dollar wall paper for her dining room - she miscalculated the number of rolls needed and came up one role short.  Since we didn't stock that particular paper, we ordered the additional roll for her.  Guess what didn't match - looked fine in the store but when placed next to the origional it was definately darker.  We got the batch number off one of the scraps she had left and it took us 6 weeks before we found a store that had some rolls in stock w/that batch number.  Now I had known this lady (one of my mother's friends in fact and even dated her daughter a few times in school) all my life and considered her to be a very nice, friendly, and humorous lady - believe me she turned into a complete dragon - for that 6 week period we were searching for a replacement, I would literlly go and hide when she came in the front door. 

gjek wrote:

So, what does Tamiya call its ANA 319 color?

OK Top.........you've completely lost me......like the caveman said, "Yeah, I have a response....uh, what?"

(Forgive me, I just an old DAT masquerading as a civilian)

SC

Also, keep in mind that paints were supplied by different manufacturers and there were some differences from one batch from the other. 

Like what RedLeg12 said, unless these vehicles were painted at the same depot and by the same crew and paints were from exact same batch, you'll see different shades of colors.

Thank You Crockett

George, in 20 years as an artillery officer, I never saw two vehicles that looked exactly the same. Each one faded and weathered different. Tamiya OD may be slightly dark to the factory standard, BUT...

After shading as Crockett showed or if you use combinations of pin washes, high spot washes, graphite in wear areas, rust in some others, pastel dusting places for that coat of dirt, etc, you will not be wrong.

Unless you paint it pink (hummm...)you cannot be that far off with any OD green after proper shading and weathering

Remember, the idea is to have fun, not go nuts

Rounds Complete!! 

gpal wrote:

Hello, I am just getting into modeling WW2 US armor with Tamiya acrylic paints. My question is that most of the WW2 US armor model instructions seem to call for Olive Drab as the base color. Is the Tamiya Olive Drab darker than the actual WW2 US military color?       Thanks, George

Here we go again!

Hi George,

So, for the most part, I think the "correct shade" debate is rather pointless. If one cares to model a pristine factory fresh Shermie or "whatever", the "correct shade " thing may have some merit. However, most of the crew on this board that delve into allied WWII stuff like to throw a little dirt,dust,muck,slime and what have you over that OD.

Not to mention, I feel, to make the model visually interesting and not appear "toylike" at 1/35th scale and smaller, the base coat must be lightened and / or darkened in certain areas to imply realism. The basic rule is, paint the model as if it were in natural light......i.e., in the areas on the top, lighter, in areas that would be more shadowed (sides) a little darker and so on. This is the key to making OD look interesting and real. Throw on some pastels or pigments and presto!

Here's a few examples of what I mean.....who cares what "shade" the original base coat was on these builds? Weathering and filtering make "shade of OD " a moot point IMHO:

I start with spraying the entire tank flat black or a very dark gray:

Then mist in the base (In this case IJA Green!), leaving the preshaded seams, panels and what have you, to show thru:

Then go back over with lighter shades (filters) in a vertical streaking motion, and highlighting the top of the hull and turret:

Finally on to the detail weathering, stains, dust dirt etc.....

And badda-boom badda - bing:

You already have conflicting opinions as to your subject in this thread, and believe me, it has been discussed and debated before on this board MANY TIMES.

My advice....don't worry about it. Just get close, and apply weathering with the various techniques that myself and others swear by, and you will put out a great build.

Good luck

Steve

IYAAYAS wrote:

However by the time you weather it, it really shouldn't make that big a difference.

I definately agree.  If you plan on doing atleast a moderate weathering, getting an exact base color isn't that important in my humble opinion.  Others can argue differently, but with the amount that a black wash darkens or dusting will lighten it for example, anything close to olive drab will work.  Not to mention the variety of shades there are on real vehicles.

The general opinion (mine included) is that it's to dark, and should be toned down with some buff or deck tan. 

However by the time you weather it, it really shouldn't make that big a difference.

I will differ with Redleg here and say that Tamiya's OD is too dark. It is closer to the Dark Olive Drab 41 shade when new used by the USAAC/USAAF through most of WWII. The Army (gound forces) used a lighter/greener shade (color #9). Actual preserved equipment I have seen in musuems and elsewhere (not reconditioned or repainted) tends to be a lighter grayer and greener shade of OD.

There has been an ongoing debate here and on other forums regarding the proper shade of OD. Based on what I have read from Steven Zaloga, Jim Mesko, and Dana Bell, about the US Army's Olive Drab paint and with what I have seen in person firsthand there are a few different brands of OD I prefer. Polly Scale makes about four or five shades in their line of acrylics and their darker/grayer shades work very well for a new base color. Testors also makes the ANA 319 shade in Acrylic and Enamel that looks like what I have seen in person. Also Gunze makes an "Armor Olive Drab" shade in their line of acrylics that looks good as well. As a side note, according to Mr Bells books, ANA 319 was standardized off of Shade #9 Olive Drab.

No..Tamiya OD is the right color. Most of the pictures you see will look lighter due to weathering or dust.

That becomes the art to learn is after the base coat of OD to weather the model. Keep an eye in this forum. You have some great people here. Search the forum database for weathering.

Hope this helps!

Rounds Complete!!