That elusive carbon fiber effect?

Mitch you are right the 1:20 scale decal looks great. the 1:24 does look a bit fine. I will order some 1:20 for the M1, but for the WEST Honda I am going to stick with the semi-gloss black since I don't have any of fine the CF decals at the moment

I found a nice "how to apply CF decals" that is informative at this link
www.briansmodelcars.com/tutorials/tutorial.asp?TutorialID=29&CurPage=1

The article has some good ideas for complex and compound curves

Andrew

Cheers for that Daniel. The 1/20th scale decals are perfect for the M1. Check out the Group Build forum, just about to upload some progress pics......

Thanks for that Mitch. I was worried that the 1/20 scale decals would look really under-scale on the M1, but they look perfect on yours. The Rennaissance sheets are exactly the same size, just not as silvery. BTW, you've done a great job of that decal job, they went one very smooth.

I agree with mostly everything chipped in so far. I'm usuing the SMS 1/20th scale twill pattern on my M1 that I'm doing for the group build. I must admit that it does look a little too silver, however I'm too late to put a smoke coat on to dull it down. Oh well, maybe next time. It doesn't look that bad anyway, or so I'm trying to tell myself!

The 1/20th scale is definatley the correct scale for that bike, even though it's underscale. I had origianally bought the 1/12 scale but that was jst too big. I also had some 1/24 kicking about, but that was too small! It is a personal thing and the scales I use vary form model to model. On the RCV i recently built it was all 1/24 scale decals I used and they looked fine.

On this pic you can see the SMS 1/20th scale twill pattern decal on the heel guard.


On this one you can see the 1/24th scale twill on the clutch cover, and the 1/24th standard CF on the section just under the seat.


Good topic! And for the record I always gloss coat the decals. CF in real life is very shiny.

Hi Daniel

Will do just that (when i can find it !!!). I have also just put in an order for the Ducati Desmosedici kit that will be released in mid Sept, complete with front fork kit !!!

Dave

I like to use 1/20 sheets on 1/12 bikes because the CF is more in scale to me. On 1/12 sheets the patterns just look too big. The 1/20 looks a bit underscale, but they look quite good on a 1/12 bike to me. It all comes down to personal preference.

I think the glossy finish on the CF comes from the resins they use to seal the Carbon fibre. I'd say on alot of high performance cars/bikes, they would want a glossy finish to make it more slippery through the air. Just do what looks good to you I suppose, but a glossy appearance is probably more accurate.

Dave If you're building the M1, why not come and join the Moto GP group build. There's not alot going on there at the moment, but you're welcome to join and share your build with us.

Hi Andrew

Check out Tamiya magazine edition 113. It has a guide to building the Yamaha YZR-M1, and a load of tips about CF decals and other bits like it. I am building the kit too at the moment !!

Dave

I will give them a try. I am interested as to why you would use the 1/20 scale sheet on a 1/12 scale bike?

Is the gloss on the real CF a result of the process or is it a gloss coating that they put on the CF parts? I have a 1:1 scale Ducati and the one CF part on my bike is more of a Semi-Gloss (again that what it appears to my eye), a mate has a Black 999 Ducati and his CF parts are all very Glossy,but he sprayed it Gloss to blend with the rest of his bike. The Yamaha M1 appears more glossy than the Honda Rc211v, but I have only see it in photos so hard to judge

I will try decals with the smoke effect as it sounds like it will do the trick

Andrew

I'm going to use the Renaissance 1/20 Carbon-Kevlar sheets for my M1. They are slightly underscale, but are better than the way too over-scale 1/12 sheets (the SMS sheets are the same). If you get SMS twill weave sheets in 1/20 they look good. And if you give them a coat of Tamiya Smoke they tone down nicely. You could try getting some at www.grandprixmodels.com or mediamix hobby.

The CF effect should be gloss I think. alot of CF I've seen on cars is gloss and alot of modellers do it that way.

Great info into process. Thanks for update

I think I need to give decals a fair try. I did try spraying through the mesh but did not "look right" other CF patterns like on the Honda RC211V Repsol the CF is not as noticeable as say on the Yamaha M1, so my solution in this instance is to use decals for the M1 and on the Honda just semi gloss black paint. I have found that I prefer the semi-gloss black to a "botched up" CF effect. The real effect is what "looks right" or "what looks" realistic since after all beauty or in this case "realism" is in the eye of the beholder. Simulating the CF effect will I think be a delicate balance between what "looks right" and enjoying the hobby of building models.

Can any one suggest where I can get some CF decal for the Yamaha M1 i.e. the grey and black effect since on the M1 this is an issue. For the WEST Honda I am going to ignore the CF and go with Semi-gloss black paint effect

Should the CF effect be Gloss, semi- gloss or matt. Just going from the references I have it would seem that semi-gloss is the best effect

Andrew

I got a couple of sheets of the Rennaissance CF decal sheets today. They look very nice. The effect is more under stated than on the SMS sheets. They have a black with dark-grey/silver lines sheet and a darker one. They look more realistic than the SMS sheets to me, I'll just have to wait and see how they go onto the model......

I have had good luck with just spraying the parts, and i mean big parts, with black pearl. It has a spotty effect and alos it looks grayish-black, so its somewhat broke up. This has worked for me on all parts, but i think it looks best on larger parts, but i just found the CF sheets at the hobby store this weekend, so no more of that for me :D

A little suggestion ( well, a path to explore as I did not experiment yet ) : get various patterns from various sources sources ( decals, "real thing" photographs, etc...) scan them into a Photoshop or what software you prefer, use "artistical" resizings and transformations and find someone who could print them in a decal form. What does it inspire to you ?

Good topic mate. Now to open the useless info vault at the back of my head......

The carbon fibre patterns change depending on the machine you are building. And different machines might have multiple different patterns and shades on them. The different patterns you see result from the materials and processes used in the Carbon fibre production. Here's a quick background to carbon fibre composites (skip this if you know this stuff already):

Carbon fibre starts it's life as a plastic called PAN. It goes through a process and ends up as a black woven fabric. Depending on different steps and processes used here, is what gives the CF the different patterns. It is then added to a plastic resin to give it rigidity and to hold the fibres in the correct orientation. At this stage, it can also be woven with different materials (eg. Kevlar) to give a combination of useful properties (high strentgh and penetration resistance with kevlar). Too much info???

Now onto the part that's useful for modelling......The only way to tell what kind of CF was used on the machine you are building is to look at pictures. One thing to remember with CF on models is, the direction the lines run in is actually important on the real machine (not on all parts, but especially on suspension arms etc). Try to look at reference and copy the way their CF runs.

The thing about some carbon fibre is that it can look different depending on the angle you look at it from. From one angle it might look like the stripy type of CF, but from a different angle it looks spotty. I noticed this alot on the Williams FW-24. I used Scale motorsport's 1/24 plain weave decals for mine (it would suit alot of modern F1 cars). It's good because it looks like black decal with a very faint pattern on it.

I don't think the black and grey striped decals are very accurate. The grey is usually too bright (especially on Scale motorsports decals). It would be more accurate if it was black with dark grey lines. I usually give these decals a coat of Tamiya Smoke paint to tone them down a bit if they look too "liney" . On the rear wings supports of the FW-24 I used clear orange to give the CF a bronze appearance like on the real cars.

On Moto GP bikes, I noticed they use alot of the spotty type CF for the fairing pieces. So I use these types of patterns on the inside of fairings. But again it all depends on the bike that you're building......

As you've probably figured out, I like using decals to achieve the effect most. If you take your time, they are pretty easy to use. I tried the spray through the mesh method once, but it didn't turn out very well (it was probably my fault, one part turned out well, but the other 3 didn't.

There could be a whole book written on this subject, but I'll stop it here. Hope I didn't bore you with a whole heap of useless info. And, I know someone will come along and point out all my mistakes........BTW, this is my longest post ever ........Sorry.

SeaBee, I am thinking of using decals for some of the smaller bits. Any idea how to simulate the black/grey “sort of zebra” effect, decals I have seen are too "sharp"" and does not quite look right? The grey seems quite light, almost a silvery colour? I tried mesh but it was a smudged mess?

Andrew C

The best I've seen as yet was on Bil's (Attridge) McLaren. Actually used none of the above, but rather went and put on a heck of a lot of thin layers with various hues of black and some gold as well. (This description of his technique is from memory, though...) Looks absolutely superb!

I am using a few decals at this stage and quite like the effect. At times some of them is a bit too "liney" - lines are too well defined to my liking. And yes, some of them are quite hazardous to mental health to apply....

There is also the technique that works quite well (on small areas, for me) of spraying a mist through mesh (over a black area) to create the CF effect. As soon as it gets too large an area, I tend to bugger up with this one, though. Need more practice!

Good topic!