Any mechanics out there? Looking for advice with real Chevy S-10

the doog wrote:

Hi guys. Forgive me--I know this should probably go in "Off Topic", but I know a lot of you guys in here are real mechanics and I wanted some advice.  My '97 Chevy S-10 pickup was just diagnosed with an intake gasket leak. It's depleting my coolant, and I know that this is a real problem with the Vortech V6 3.8 motor. What happens if I let this go for a little bit, until I can find a new truck? I really have been considering a newer truck, so I'd rather just trade it in when I find another. Can I ride around a while if I just replace the coolant? It's not like sucking dry every week or anything yet; can I nurse another few weeks out of it?  I also have an "Evap leak"--would this be probably be emanating from the gasket leak as well?  Lastly, what's the cost for a repair of this type if I had to do it? $500? $800? $1,000?!

I think you have the 4.3 motor or the 2.8 motor. I had a car with the 2.8 motor once, and had to replace the intake and head gaskets. It's a pretty involved job in a front wheel drive car, but actually easier in a rear wheel drive car like you have. Still your looking at five or six hundred dollars unless you do it yourself. Here's the catch; your sucking coolant into the chambers as well as contaminating the oil supply. Eventually it will go bellyup at the worst time. I think before I went too far with this I'd do a cylinder leak down test just to see what all's wrong. If you have the 4.3 motor your in luck as it's nothing more than a small block Chevy engine made into a V6. Much easier to work on, but less apt to have that kind of problems.

gary

squeakie wrote:

I think you have the 4.3 motor or the 2.8 motor. I had a car with the 2.8 motor once, and had to replace the intake and head gaskets. It's a pretty involved job in a front wheel drive car, but actually easier in a rear wheel drive car like you have. Still your looking at five or six hundred dollars unless you do it yourself. Here's the catch; your sucking coolant into the chambers as well as contaminating the oil supply. Eventually it will go bellyup at the worst time. I think before I went too far with this I'd do a cylinder leak down test just to see what all's wrong. If you have the 4.3 motor your in luck as it's nothing more than a small block Chevy engine made into a V6. Much easier to work on, but less apt to have that kind of problems. gary

That's what I was afraid of! All I need is to have this die with my race bike in the back, coming home after a two-and-a-half hour race, dead-tired and hungry!

I guess I take the dual sport and go hunting for a new Toyota?

Thanks for the info, Squeakie!  

FL157--glad to hear you had success with your repairs there, but I already had it diagnosed, with a computer test, and I don't think that that will work; I don't want to go chasing sensors and dropping money into it just to find out it needs the damned gasket work. But thanks for the input! 

Doog, you have two options ~ Fix it or park it or most likely it will Park and Fix you when you at the worst moment.  Chances are your coolant is not only going into your crankcase but your cylinders as well. Ethylene Glycol and water is a terrible lubricant. You will wash out your bearings and do damage to other surfaces needing lubrication. Nothing worse then a flat cam lobes.....

If you are getting it in your cylinders you will be getting the Domino Effect as your sensors will be trying to compesate for the "foreign mixture" most likely making your engine run richer to burn this mess. Thus increassing your fuel consumption... Plugs fouling up, Catalytic converter getting juiced up from the liquid vapor not burning  ect ect

Ive seen those Darryl Waltrip Toyota commercials.....Looks like a good choice...Exspecially if you have had fan's that Booed you !

WOW, guys--thanks for all the great info. I have been driving it for maybe two-three weeks with  that smell (The coolant) now. Luckily, I only drive it a few miles at a time, as I use my dual sport mostly in the summer. Sounds like I've been lucky...so far.

Well, now I'm torn as to whether to just sell it or to fix it first and then sell it? I can probably trade it in...wonder how much I'd get for the condition it is? I wonder if it would be worth it to fix it first?

Sheesh. Decisions, decisions! 

Cost? If you do it yourself, about 4 hours to R & R the intake, $10.00 bucks for gaskets and sealer, $20.00 for a Haynes Manual (helps to read it first) or get one from your Public Library for free. While you doing it, change the oil, filter and coolant. Don't forget hand cleaner and and Band-aids. It ain't hard if you have the hand tools (mostly metric).

When your done you can say: "Remember that truck I wanted to sell you? Never mind, It's running ok now."

Whats the difference between education and experience? Education is what you get when you read the Hanyes manual. Experience is what you get when you don't read the Haynes manual. Don't ask me how I know.  Good Luck.

I've actually got one, and have a mecjhanic friend coming over to look at it....good news is there's no cloudiness to the oil on the dipstick yet. Hopefully that means it's not into the oil case yet?

Time will tell....... 

One old friend of mine who was a mechanic had a way to keep under his finger nails clean. He would dig his nails into a bar of soap! After working the soap would just wash away leaving clean nails.

Mike T.

FL157 wrote:

Hey there I have a 95 s-10 with the v-6 4.3 liter with the same issue. I had all my sensors changed out, radiator flushed and the sensor in the radiator( or whatever its called, I cant think of the name of it) changed out. Seems to be better, but I wont really know untill summer. Hopes this helps any.

If it keeps eating sensors the problem may well be in the computer program. There is another program they can load that seems to solve the "eating sensors problem." It's part of a service bulletin."

gary

FL157 wrote:

Ya yours sounds pretty serious. Mine was pretty easy to fix. I have heard alot of issues with the vorteck motor. Good luck and hope you get it fixed.... Or just sell it! Toyota Tacoma  all the way!!!

I've owned three 4.3 motors, and they were abused like you'd never believe. I've own one 3.8 and a 3.9 vortec V6, plus a 5.3 vortec engine in my current truck. Of all these engines, one had a tentioning pulley replaced on warranty, and the one that ate the sensors twice got the new program in it. None of these motors have had the heads or intake off them, or anything else even close to being major. The one that got a new program must have gained 25 horse power and three mpg.

    When I look back at all those cars and trucks I can list all the things replaced or fixed on one hand. The pulley (the dealer caught it before it even went bad during an oil change), one plastic cover over a seat belt retractor, the sensor problem. I did tell the dealer to replace the serpentine belt when he changed out the pulley, but it was still just fine. You'll never see anything close to that out of a Jap truck or car. And I mean NEVER. To ad to this, my old girl friend drives an Avalon, and before that it was nothing but Buicks and Caddys. Well with 38K on the odometer the battery and alternator went bad. The bill was $900 and some change! She's car shopping right now at the Buick dealer. Want to deeper I'll tell you about the Nazi junk I've owned in the past! Or the little Ford Falcon that had 336K miles on it when a girl ran a stop sign (I bought it for $500 with 150K miles on it).

gary

HeavyArty wrote:

I agree with Gary above.  I have always had Chevys and the Vortec engines are great.  I have had a bunch and never had any issues with them.  Keep up routine maintenance and they will run forever.  I too only buy American cars and Chevys specifically, with a Jeep or two thrown in as well.  My advice, don't get the Toyota, fix the Chevy.

on Wednesday!

Thanks for all the great advice guys! You may have saved me from making a real expensive mistake from procrastination...I appreciate all your valuable input!

the doog wrote:

WOW, guys--thanks for all the great info. I have been driving it for maybe two-three weeks with  that smell (The coolant) now. Luckily, I only drive it a few miles at a time, as I use my dual sport mostly in the summer. Sounds like I've been lucky...so far. Well, now I'm torn as to whether to just sell it or to fix it first and then sell it? I can probably trade it in...wonder how much I'd get for the condition it is? I wonder if it would be worth it to fix it first? Sheesh. Decisions, decisions!

Hey Doog, you said you smell coolant. Do you smell it inside the cab? If so first check the heater core for a leak. Another test is the tailpipe. If you smell coolant there your in trouble.

gary

squeakie wrote:

the doog wrote: WOW, guys--thanks for all the great info. I have been driving it for maybe two-three weeks with  that smell (The coolant) now. Luckily, I only drive it a few miles at a time, as I use my dual sport mostly in the summer. Sounds like I've been lucky...so far. Well, now I'm torn as to whether to just sell it or to fix it first and then sell it? I can probably trade it in...wonder how much I'd get for the condition it is? I wonder if it would be worth it to fix it first? Sheesh. Decisions, decisions!  Hey Doog, you said you smell coolant. Do you smell it inside the cab? If so first check the heater core for a leak. Another test is the tailpipe. If you smell coolant there your in trouble. gary

I know what you're saying about the heater coil--had one go, in the dead of winter on a three hour drive to Pennsylvania in a blizzard on the eve of Christmas Eve---fouled up the windshoeld something fierce! YEECCCHHHH!!! Smelled like hell too!

I had no heat in 20 degree weather in my other drafty, older S10 longbed. Man, I near froze to death on that haul!

No problems in the tailpipe though--but thanks for the tips once again!

Hey Doog! (love the Nomad!)

I've been a GM technician for 25 years. Your condition is pretty typical. Those engines are notoriuos for intake gasket failure. Not a day goes by that we don't replace a set here at the dealer.

Get it fixed ASAP, by a QUALITY repair person. Removeing/cleaning the old gasket material can do more harm than good, I've seen otherwise good repairs ruin an engine to to the wrong type of abrisive being used to clean the sealing surfaces of the cylinder heads and intake manifold. You really do get what you pay for here. The coolant intrusion into the oil can damage the crankshaft and camshaft bearings.

Good luck

 Bill 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the great info! I have it down at a shop right now getting done. The guy seems to have a pretty good rep. Luckily, the oil was still dark brown so I don't think I had any major intrusion, and it wasn't running rough or anything.

That's what I've heard about the frequency of failure on these engines---some have even said they were "designed to fail"?

Thanks for the info, and the kudo's on the Nomad!

the doog wrote:

squeakie wrote:  the doog wrote: WOW, guys--thanks for all the great info. I have been driving it for maybe two-three weeks with  that smell (The coolant) now. Luckily, I only drive it a few miles at a time, as I use my dual sport mostly in the summer. Sounds like I've been lucky...so far. Well, now I'm torn as to whether to just sell it or to fix it first and then sell it? I can probably trade it in...wonder how much I'd get for the condition it is? I wonder if it would be worth it to fix it first? Sheesh. Decisions, decisions!  Hey Doog, you said you smell coolant. Do you smell it inside the cab? If so first check the heater core for a leak. Another test is the tailpipe. If you smell coolant there your in trouble. gary We actually found the leak, Gary--you can see the coolant laying right on top of the front of the engine--the most common place that it leaks, as the guy told me. That makes sense now why I could smell it whenever I would exit the truck and walk by the front. I know what you're saying about the heater coil--had one go, in the dead of winter on a three hour drive to Pennsylvania in a blizzard on the eve of Christmas Eve---fouled up the windshoeld something fierce! YEECCCHHHH!!! Smelled like hell too! I had no heat in 20 degree weather in my other drafty, older S10 longbed. Man, I near froze to death on that haul! No problems in the tailpipe though--but thanks for the tips once again!

I can sympthize with you in two ways. I had a VW twice that never knew what heat was!! But the dumbest thing I ever did was to build what was planned tobe a true street sweeper. Went so far as to remove any and everything that was really needed including the whole heater assembly. When winter came the car was nicnamed "Amana."

gary

UPDATE!--Got the truck back today--$389.78 all told. The guy said the gasket was definitely the problem, found one bad vacuum hose, and I need a new gas cap. Said the rest of the truck is in pretty good shape though!

Thanks to alll of you who weighed in on this problem! Your input was much appreciated!!!!

Well as someone who owns the GMC version of this with the 2.8, and with all the stuff I've been with cars over the years, with racing and whatnot(Yes I used to be involved in racing and most of my family does racecars as well), as long as the collant isn't leaking into your oil you aren't going to do anything major in the short term.  Be advised though that the damage it IS causing is cumulative.  IF you pay someone to fix it you are gonna pay through the nose, but you can fix this yourself with a gasket kit, some basic tools, and a haynes or chilton manual.  The gasket set should only run you like 35 bucks(or at least around these parts), the manual about 15-20.  Tools well if you have them great if not, they are worth getting.  It ALWAYS pays to get quality tools, they will actually fit the bolts and nuts better, and there will be alot less chance of them slippnig off and you busting a knuckle.  I finally removed my head from my posterior and bought a good set of tooks and haven't smacked a knuckle since.  If you lived closer, I could help you out.  I have both manuals for that truck. 

Ah didn't see you got it taken care of.  The price is pretty decent as far as hiring a shop to do it.  I'm more of a do it yourself kinda guy.  I just ripped apart the engine in my Datsun and put it back together to replace a timing chain guide.  The guide cost me 13 bucks, the gaskets cost me 18.  Out of curiosity I got a few quotes from shops and the cheapest one was 1250 bucks.  The most expensive was 4 grand.  I laughed like crazy at all of them.  I took care of it myself for about 30 bucks.  Runs like a champ once again.