Going to the kitchen now to make popcorn. This ought to be fun...

Actually I've got a basketball game to watch.

I agree with you completely, but I completely disagree in a friendly way with your position.

First of all, it's a free country, right? Except I'm still looking for the free stuff. Of course I'm not, I thank God every day I wake up here.

But I think the preshading thing may be a way to get shade and shadow going where the panels on the 1:1 aren't really very smooth.

Your Falcons were covered in paint anyways dude.

If doing them fills you and leaves you satisfied....do them.  Dont see the controversy...maybe Im crazy.

I agree 100% with TankerBuilder.  I never monkey around trying to accentuate panel lines.  To me, it makes the model look unrealistic.

Alrighty then.....

I see and get your point TB. The problem arises when builders make the panel lines and or pre shading too dark. This to me is not realistic and needs to be toned down to just a subtle hint of a shadow to fool the eyes and give that illusion of texture on military aircraft. I have seen great builds with fantastic paint jobs ruined by having a very dark pre shading that just looks awful. I do my pre shading as a means to break up the solid colors, lending fading and weathering as in this well used and weathered 1/72 F-4J with raised details. I think that without the pre shading the paint would just look too plain and even.

Bare metal finishes do not show panel lines strongly, although you may imply them do to different colors of aluminum on different panels.  However, when painted planes get really grungy they do show some enhanced panel lines.  But if airlines let their planes get looking that bad, no one would fly in them!  The military, especially during wartime, does not have time to wash the planes frequently.

The only time I stress panel lines on civil aircraft is if I am depicting a plane as a hanger queen or ramp queen.

Right !

Just like lots of birds !

Now See !

That's what I was talking about .Your plane looks great . There is very subtle lineage present .That looks great ! My comments were intended to make some folks look at their work and build like that !

Thanks TB for your kind words.

I think it can also depend on the model kit itself, some have deep panel lines and they will show up more visible. Your higher end kits have finer lines and if you don't add any washes etc they are hardly noticeable.

Same issue comes up all the time in car model circles about door and trunk lines lol.

In the end it's all up to what the modellers personal tastes are.

I'm of the "live and let live" school. Frankly, I think it depends on what the model builder finds satisfactory and personally satisfying. No panel lines? Fine. A few? Also fine. Paint the darned thing pink ,engrave panel lines a scale 6" deep, and paint them deep purple? Well, it might not be to my taste, but I'm not the guy building it.

I have to agree with you, most panel lines are overdone.  Looking at reference photos and videos they are very subtle if visible at all.

Mike

It's all personal taste. From standing around various planes over the years, many times there is no differentiation in panel lines. Especially with one that has been washed recently or flying in a lot of rain. I usually don't see 'solid' lines of grit on panel lines except around wheel wells and sometimes on top of the wing. The rest is a very faint mottled texture, sometimes light grey in appearance or with a faint bit of black here and there, (Flory black panel wash does this perfectly). Sometimes there is actually a natural subtle pre-shade effect, which I was surprised to notice once I paid more attention. Solid panel lines all over the plane do seem to take away from a build a bit.  For me, subtle and not too dark looks best.

Panel lines on in-service aircraft.

Nice mottling effect.

And this one looks surprisingly clean for a Texas Air National Guard hog. 

Guess it depends on the aircraft.

Yah ;

Dat boid is very nice ! Now see what I was referring too ? The lines are there but for the most part unless the light hit's just right or they are dark flat birds you don't see much .That's wut I was talkin about !

Plasticjunkie, that Phantom is gorgeous!

Here is my 2 cents. I have been around aircraft my whole adult life. started as a GA pilot, then into the Air Force, and now in the airlines.

Aircraft panel lines rarely show unless there is a reason. Like hydraulic fluid/fuel seepage or taxiing thru mud/grass/dirt. Then it is almost always very localized to a specific area.

What does happen is paint wears unevenly and can fade unevenly on all aircraft.

Military aircraft have many removable panels for maintenance and access. These wear around edges and

can be replaced/repainted. Also battle repairs add variations. All of this leads to the look of the Apache.

Wear and tear on military aircraft is a real issue. For a realistic look paint some panels slightly different shades, vary the surface mattness/gloss, and show wear around the maintenance panels and fasteners.

The A-10 looks like it was taken at an airshow. The wing would try to send the best looking aircraft there. That explains the pristine paint.

Airliners should really never show panel lines. everything just fits together too well, they generally don't have many maintenance panels, and they ussually have heavy gloss paint. Add to that the scale of most airliners make the panel lines invisible. What does happen to airlines is the jetway smudge around the boarding door, grease/hydraulic fluid around the flaps/slats and gear, some oil seepage around the engines and APU area, a small bit of carbon deposits around the engine/APU exhaust and the flaps behind the engine.

With military and commercial aviation the aircraft are mission tools. Looking clean and perfect are secondary to being able to fly the mission.

That's been my observations over 30 years in aviation.

tankerbuilder

My comments were intended to make some folks look at their work and build like that !

Why do you want other people to build THEIR models a certain way?  You build as you like and so will others.

tankerbuilder

Yah ;

Dat boid is very nice ! Now see what I was referring too ? The lines are there but for the most part unless the light hit's just right or they are dark flat birds you don't see much .That's wut I was talkin about !

Yep!  You change the light and get a little closer and you can begin to pick up the details even on a "pristine" bird. 

There's always an exception..

GAF

Panel lines on in-service aircraft.

And this one looks surprisingly clean for a Texas Air National Guard hog. 

Guess it depends on the aircraft.

Looks like a setup for a public display.  That means they likely took an effort to wash and clean the planes, which they might not have the time to do in a combat area.

I somewhat appreciate really fine panel lines, I think it adds a bit to the realism of the model, but only with military. Corporate Gulfstream's and airliners are made for one essential purpose, go high, fast and far. Any disruption to the air frames external surfaces, like panel lines, causes additional aerodynamic drag, hence the fit and finish is a major consideration during production.

On those civilian aircraft great attention is given to not only the sheet metal fitting, but as well the sealants that prevent atmospheric contamination from leeching into the airframe at the panel joins. The same care is given to high speed military A/C externals of course, but their appearance is not about show, the paint is often flat low-vis, so the panel lines are not so noticeable.

But civilian A/C are usually gloss painted, so even then the panel lines are fairly indistinguishable, due to the more precise fitting of panels, and the sealant that pretty much fairs the surface flush. Then when paint is applied, panel lines all but disappear. On 1:48th or 1:32nd scale military, I do retain much of the panel details, 1:72 I just do away with.

So, Tanker, I mostly agree with you, I don't go to extremes to preserve paneling, (but I greatly admire the skills that others apply in doing so.) Either way is correct, it all depends on the individual. Not everyone likes buttermilk or single malt whiskies, but for the life of me I can't understand why.

Fun read.

Patrick  

Bottom line is, it doesn't really matter if accentuating panel lines is "realistic" to you or not. Some modelers build for "realism", some modelers build for "Art". In my modeling philosophy, the act of making modeling "Art" is taking something "realistic" and deliberately exaggerating or accentuating certain aspects of it in order to elicit some emotional response that a plainly "realistic" model might not otherwise evince. Based upon the collectively-positive reactions to many of my models, I'd say that's proven to be a valid philosophy.

We have the same silly arguments in Armor modeling. How much rust is too much? Is "Scale Effect" painting "realistic" or not? In the end, it's what the modeler wants to do to present his model, and what they want to try to portray.

Doesn't mean that anyone can't, or shouldn't offer their suggestions or opinions though. There's just no room to be dogmatic about it. :)

A 1/48 airplane will never look 100% real unless we use 1/48 photons and 1/48 retina photo receptors.  

If some people think accentuated panel lines make their airplane models look better, so be it.  Monet unrealistically accentuated lighting effects in his paintings.  Was he silly?

I'm a comparatively new arrival back into modeling, and the one thing that strikes me about most of the models I see in the magazine is how far the detail shading is taken beyond realism. I admit that it looks simply amazing and I will never, ever have that level of skill, but it doesn't look real.

I've been modeling long enough (50 years pretty steady) to opine that I've seen techniques rise and fade in popularity. They tend to become the "best way to do it", or such, and are interesting because we've never seen it before and it represents an improvement in some fashion.

30 years ago everything got drybrushed.

Currently the armor people favor filters. I personally think it's sort of a way to make everything brown.

In the overall context of things, and this is where i take the OP to task, why criticize if I wipe beer off my upper lip with the back of my hand or the front? It works for me and I'm having fun.

There's plenty of poorly done things offered up around that do deserve comment, like attaching sails to a ship with a running overhand black lace, but this isn't IMO one of them.

I don't think TB is being Dogmatic Karl.  I know what you mean about "Art" but lets face it.  Most are going for accuracy and TB's right if you are going for accuracy.  Unless it is heavily combat used and wasn't able to see maintenance for a while, you wont see much as far as lines.  Especially if you are doing a clean build.  Remember these crew members took pride in their equipment and cleaned them a lot.  

Honestly that Phantom, I think, is just about perfect! A perfect medium!

   I must admit that I like the exaggerated panel lines.  Light simply won't play off of a 6" model like it will a 16' model of the same subject.  I admire the skill it takes to make a 6" model appear real and pleasing to the eye.  This is only my opinion and preference.    A question:  If 1/48  models look to be 70-150 feet away on the bench wouldn't modeling a lot of the details we put on models ( like the pit ) be unnecessary?            

   I also appreciate any person who takes the time to post pictures of their work ( especially wips--hint,hint ), no matter their style of painting.                            knox

Funny I used to be in the whole 'panel lines are overdoing it' camp but over time I've joined the 'artist' camp in adding them. Sure it's not realistic but they they do add a lot of interest and character to the model. I think it's kinda like sound in space movies- it's unrealistic but try watching 'Star Wars' with the sound turned off- it's just less exciting and interesting.

Gamera

I think it's kinda like sound in space movies- it's unrealistic but try watching 'Star Wars' with the sound turned off- it's just less exciting and interesting.

I cannot imagine 'Star Wars: Episode IV' without THAT Tie Fighter sound!