how much difference

Hans von Hammer wrote:

trakpin wrote: these guys will have been gassed first, thru a bit of miscalculation on the part of some poor meteorologist who didn't read any change in wind direction and who is now no more . my idea is that the sovs took advantage of NATO possibly being distracted by the Hungarian Uprising in '56 with a supprise attack across both the N German Plain and thru Fulda Gap. Ok, I didn't read this part well before I replied... You're saying that Ivan launched WW 3 through the Fuld Gap in the fifties and lead off with chemical attacks, and a couple dumb grunts got caught in it due to bad NBC weather forecast if I got it right.. Keep in mind that if they started the attacks with chemical weapons, they'd probably be in the Soviet equivilant of MOPP suits. This's the mask and carrier that was used from the mid-50s through the 80's. The face-blank material changed, but the design stayed the same.. Tank and AFV crews had a different type, one with a hose that connected to an external filter cannister and included a radio mic.

 

that's pretty much it, a serious miscalculation on one "officer's" part. the chem used, for obvious reasons, would be non-persistant. the sov tank crew in this had panicked when something that wasn't supposed to happen, did and tried bailing out. what would one expect of 2nd rate follow on forces

 woulda replied sooner, but had trouble logging in

Mic wrote:

If you are gonna do it, then you gotta be real about it, and then be prepared to take the heat. If you wanna push the consensus past the sense of good taste, by modeling the trashed remains of human beings, then at least do it well. Steve

trakpin wrote:

these guys will have been gassed first, thru a bit of miscalculation on the part of some poor meteorologist who didn't read any change in wind direction and who is now no more . my idea is that the sovs took advantage of NATO possibly being distracted by the Hungarian Uprising in '56 with a supprise attack across both the N German Plain and thru Fulda Gap.

Ok, I didn't read this part well before I replied...

You're saying that Ivan launched WW 3 through the Fuld Gap in the fifties and lead off with chemical attacks, and a couple dumb grunts got caught in it due to bad NBC weather forecast if I got it right..

Keep in mind that if they started the attacks with chemical weapons, they'd probably be in the Soviet equivilant of MOPP suits:

This's the mask and carrier that was used from the mid-50s through the 80's. The face-blank material changed, but the design stayed the same..

Tank and AFV crews had a different type, one with a hose that connected to an external filter cannister and included a radio mic.

 

 

 

My personal opinion is that if you model military scenes, sooner or later you'll need to model a casualty or three..  The trick is to keep it real, and not splash bright red paint all over the place, which quickly arks you a tasteless amature...  Keep the gore to a minumum and you'll do just fine.. Unless your real intent is to shock your viewers, that is...  Just keep in mind a could of things.. Dead men don't bleed (the heart has stopped), and with gunshot wounds, have the blood running from them in fine lines on the skin, not big ol' blotches, and if your casualty lived for a bit before bleeding out, and didn't have an exit wound, most of the bleeding would be internal...

To effectively model a gas casualty, I'd put a pro-mask in his hand or lying next to him on the ground.. That'll tip your viewers off with having to do a lot of explaining... Depending on the era you're modeling, you could even add period NBC contamination markers... The "GAS" and "GAS MINES" signs are particularly effective in late 20th century and today...

Like AJ said, an for an effective diorama, the viewers should immediately know what's going on without a title or story to read..

 

 

wasn't gonna turn them into ground chuck. just something a bit different cuz all i see are works where everyone is at rest or on the move, even tho they're d@mm good works

I think you can model death with a decent amount of taste. Not a big need for an argument regarding sterility. However, sounds to me as if you are thinking about casualities that would, essentially, need to be modeled as hamburger meat. If that's what you wanna do, then go for it. If you are gonna do it, then you gotta be real about it, and then be prepared to take the heat.

If you wanna push the consensus past the sense of good taste, by modeling the trashed remains of human beings, then at least do it well.

Steve

 

ajlafleche wrote:

Please rethink your project and don't give me "the horrors of war" spiel...you're not recreating a real event.

nope, it's a might've been. and, why do dios have to be so..."sterile", in that they do not depict the consequences of war? also, i know what bodies look like. saw one after he had jumped off a rather tall building, tho it's not the result of combat, but still... there were bits of brain 15' away. besides, i might not even find suitable sovs and just leave things as they are, sov tankers hanging out of hatches

At the risk of being morbid, take a look at a squirrel or possum that's been hit hard and messed up then go back in a day or so ...That's about what you're planning to model. You are going to face a lot of criticism about the poor taste of such a scene. To see what dead humans look like, go here. These men died in the ACW and weren't crushed by tanks. For gas attack victims and others in the Great War, go here.

Also, the fact you already need to explain the casualties were gassed first says you've gone too far afield in your story telling. Someone viewing your diorama should be able to understand the story without even a title.

Please rethink your project and don't give me "the horrors of war" spiel...you're not recreating a real event.

these guys will have been gassed first, thru a bit of miscalculation on the part of some poor meteorologist who didn't read any change in wind direction and who is now no more . my idea is that the sovs took advantage of NATO possibly being distracted by the Hungarian Uprising in '56 with a supprise attack across both the N German Plain and thru Fulda Gap.

Kinda gruesome, but... ok.. The trick to making casualties look like casualties is get them to look dead, not just knocked over.  Most casualties, when they're hit, simply crumple if they die instantly, so you can get some goofy angles on legs & arms... If a casualty has lived a bit after being hit and simply bled out, he'll likely be in somewhat a more prone postion or possibly fetal for gut wounds...

Casualties that are run over by tracks would be pretty much unrecognizble as such after a couple of tanks have done so... They'd be more apt to be ground into the dirt, or pushed into the mud or sand, and would also be kinda like part of the groundwork with only a couple recognizable features indictaing that they were humans...

 

thx. i'm thinking on pressing one or 2 into wet celuclay to make it like they were run over on a road, cuz sculpting is bit above my paygrade

If you're planning on using figures sculpted as standing/sitting to be prone casualties, the differences in uniforms is the least of your concerns. A sculptor creates folds in clothing to accomodate gravity pulling down from head to toe. A prone figure needs significantly different folds. Also, the sculptor has accounted for muscles not being completely relaxed as you would find in a dead body. Even a prone figure will look more alive than a figure sculpted as a dead body.

Late WW2 and Korean era infantry are pretty much interchangeable...