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AREA 51 DIORAMA!!!!!! Is it possiable to make a model levetate? Using magnets?

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 5, 2005 8:47 PM
I was at Michaels today and seen this Awsome Metal foil. It is called Delta Renaissance Foil It is an Easy Silver Leafing System!!! Anybody Use itQuestion [?] Or even seen itQuestion [?]

http://www.deltacrafts.com/Crafting/RenFoil/


It is like looking into a mirror!!! SO perfect!! It is the best foil I have ever seen!!!!
It is so flexable!!!! And is Perfect for any High reflective metal surface!!! It only costs $7.00 and you get alot of it!!! It comes rolled around a flat piece of cardboard to keep it from getting crumpled!!! It is easier to apply then the barmetal Foil!!!! It's good stuff!!!

I'm using the foil on my ufo! And I'm also using AcladII!!!Cool [8D]
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Belgium
Posted by DanCooper on Thursday, November 3, 2005 3:42 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Manic Moran

ended up using hairs, one tied to an AT-3 rail on each wingtip to hold the chopper in place. Visible if you looked for them, but much less so than a rod or some such. I'm not sure how long a hair would last before decomposing though, the diorama was destroyed in an accident some time ago. Perhaps really thin fishing line?

NTM


I don't think you need to worry about the hair starting to decompose within your lifetime and even you great grandchildren's lifetime, since the mummies they discover in Egyp and Peru still have hair most of the time.

However I'm sure that monofilament (or however it's written) is less visible than hair, unless you're using grey hair.

On the bench : Revell's 1/125 RV Calypso

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Thursday, November 3, 2005 9:07 AM
Creekdude... that's awesome! Thanks for sharing thisSmile [:)]
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 3, 2005 6:07 AM
Greetings!
Getting in on this thread a little late, but....
I had the same thought about getting the Area 51 saucer to hover and did a lot of "Googling"!
The best contraption I found was here

http://www.wannalearn.com/Academic_Subjects/Science/Physics/Super_Levitron.html

Don't know if you've seen this or not. I emailed the makers describing what I wanted to do, They pretty much said "Maybe it would work if you can keep the saucer centered"
Good luck and keep us posted!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 3, 2005 12:13 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Manic Moran

Good luck. Many years ago, I made a diorama with two 1/72 Mi-24 Hinds, one on the ground, the other 'hovering'.

What I ended up doing was carving a hole in the base for the magnets, and inserting more magnets into the fuselage. As you can imagine, there's not much room to play with in a 1/72 chopper with a passenger compartment, so I couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution for the flip-over problem.

I ended up using hairs, one tied to an AT-3 rail on each wingtip to hold the chopper in place. Visible if you looked for them, but much less so than a rod or some such. I'm not sure how long a hair would last before decomposing though, the diorama was destroyed in an accident some time ago. Perhaps really thin fishing line?

NTM
Perhaps really thin fishing line?

If I do need to use fishing line I'm going to use the Extreamly clear STERN Fishing line! It is a fishing line that stern makes that Almost disappears against the backround. I forger what the name of the line but it is made by stern and is very transparent!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 3, 2005 12:07 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff Herne

By the way, you could have figured this out mathmatically...all it takes is a basic knowledge of elecromagnetic fields, Gauss's Law and Coulomb's Law, and Ampere's Law if you're hooking it up to a battery. It wouldn't hurt to have a working knowledge of displacement currents, the Faraday Induction, Lenz's Law, the Maxwell-Hertz equation, and Lorentz force. Of course, the phenomena involved in Ampere's Law can be reduced by suitable Lorentz transformations to electric fields and static charges. This means that the magnetic field ends up being (conceptually) reduced to an appendage of the electric field, i.e. something which interacts with reality only indirectly through the electric field. And here you thought I was just poking fun...

Jeff


Yah I know most of the different formulas like Ohms law, Coulombs Law, and Gauss's Law! But like I said I'm right now have no plans of using a battery unless I need it to boost the electromagnetic field, and that is partially why I'm getting help from two friends of mine to help me do the circuitry. but that is if I would even need a battery! But other then that I passed my Electronics class!!!! Though I must admit it wasn't easy! thanks for the info JeffCool [8D]
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: California
Posted by Manic Moran on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 11:17 PM
Good luck. Many years ago, I made a diorama with two 1/72 Mi-24 Hinds, one on the ground, the other 'hovering'.

What I ended up doing was carving a hole in the base for the magnets, and inserting more magnets into the fuselage. As you can imagine, there's not much room to play with in a 1/72 chopper with a passenger compartment, so I couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution for the flip-over problem.

I ended up using hairs, one tied to an AT-3 rail on each wingtip to hold the chopper in place. Visible if you looked for them, but much less so than a rod or some such. I'm not sure how long a hair would last before decomposing though, the diorama was destroyed in an accident some time ago. Perhaps really thin fishing line?

NTM

The difference between infantrymen and cavalrymen is that cavalrymen die faster for we ride into battle!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 9:23 PM
Jeff, I'm pretty sure this is just a simple magnetic dipole interaction in the static regime.

Brian
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Chehalis, WA
Posted by Fish-Head Aric on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 2:09 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff Herne

...
I don't know why I never pursued a career in science...I've got everything except the T-shirt...

Jeff


Well, I got the T-Shirt, but nothing else!
~Aric Fisher aric_001@hotmail.com
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 1:52 PM
Like I said, it's all fun 'til someone gets "blowed up" lol...

I was that kid in high school who wrote the essay on building an A-bomb in your own home...all you needed was a source of Uranium or Plutonium (yea, I know, there's always one minor catch).

I don't know why I never pursued a career in science...I've got everything except the T-shirt...

Jeff
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 1:38 PM
Jeff...good heaven's !!! and here I thought I was modeling for fun !!! LOL...
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 1:33 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff Herne

Let me relate something to you that we "older" guys can attest to...

Back in 1978, I got a chemistry set for my birthday...it had all sorts of nasty chemicals (not the wimpy vinegar and baking soda chem sets you get today)...it also included batteries, magnets, wires, and a variety of implements of destruction.

I don't remember what I did, or how I did it, but...I managed to blow the garage door off the house...and I ended up in the hospital with a severe concussion. IIRC, it involved electricity and propane.

So lighten up...it's all funny until someone gets "blowed up" Wink [;)].

Jeff


I remember that set!! LoL... oh, the Grumpy [|(]Censored [censored]Sign - Dots [#dots] memories!!
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 12:54 PM
By the way, you could have figured this out mathmatically...all it takes is a basic knowledge of elecromagnetic fields, Gauss's Law and Coulomb's Law, and Ampere's Law if you're hooking it up to a battery. It wouldn't hurt to have a working knowledge of displacement currents, the Faraday Induction, Lenz's Law, the Maxwell-Hertz equation, and Lorentz force. Of course, the phenomena involved in Ampere's Law can be reduced by suitable Lorentz transformations to electric fields and static charges. This means that the magnetic field ends up being (conceptually) reduced to an appendage of the electric field, i.e. something which interacts with reality only indirectly through the electric field. And here you thought I was just poking fun...

Jeff
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Iowa
Posted by chevit2001 on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 12:50 PM
AREA 51? But that place doesn't officially exist does it? Has anyone experimented by taking the magnetron apart from an old miicrowave oven to gain access to the two strong ring magnets? I love those things, have several of them. They are super strong magnets. Just be careful and don't get your finger in between them when they are turned so they attract each other. I have gotten them out for my seven year old but won't let her personally handle them. Afraid she'll get her finger in between their magnetic field.
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 12:29 PM
Let me relate something to you that we "older" guys can attest to...

Back in 1978, I got a chemistry set for my birthday...it had all sorts of nasty chemicals (not the wimpy vinegar and baking soda chem sets you get today)...it also included batteries, magnets, wires, and a variety of implements of destruction.

I don't remember what I did, or how I did it, but...I managed to blow the garage door off the house...and I ended up in the hospital with a severe concussion. IIRC, it involved electricity and propane.

So lighten up...it's all funny until someone gets "blowed up" Wink [;)].

Jeff
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 11:55 AM
Erik, you'll find that life is not what you make it... it's how ya take it. Having a sense of humor is a good part of itSmile [:)] The ability to see the humor in all things is another part. Happy building & Be Careful! Bad experiments can be hilarious but, They hurt too!!Sign - Oops [#oops]
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 11:07 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Hippy-Ed

Erik, Like you, I have experimented with many things in my youth... There was an old memory that ran thru my mind when ya mentioned the car battery. I reversed the wires by mistake & the battery blew up on meShock [:O]Sign - Oops [#oops] Looking back at it (some 25 yrs later) I see the humor in it.
Sit back, relax, enjoy life. Enjoy your project & I think it's a doozie of one! Good luck
Eddie


Thanks Eddie! That means alot to me! Were cool now!Cool [8D] As far as the battery goes I'm not planning on not going in that direction yet.
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 11:56 PM
Erik, Like you, I have experimented with many things in my youth... There was an old memory that ran thru my mind when ya mentioned the car battery. I reversed the wires by mistake & the battery blew up on meShock [:O]Sign - Oops [#oops] Looking back at it (some 25 yrs later) I see the humor in it.
Sit back, relax, enjoy life. Enjoy your project & I think it's a doozie of one! Good luck
Eddie
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 8:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by cthulhu77

How odd...I am working on virtually the same project ! Doing a fair amount of research, I found this place, and they have been really helpful with technical information about lifting the finished model according to weight, etc...
Looking forward to seeing yours done ! (mine is at least a year away)
greg
Here's their address:
http://www.gaussboys.com/


SweetCool [8D] Hope to see yours to! Thanks for the information by the way!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 8:17 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by zaphod

Mr. Bultz, if your post was made in jest, you might want to make the jest a bit clearer. I am thankful that Greg shared the web site. Did you go there for your magnets, or another source?

Respectfully,
Brian


Greg is alright!!!Cool [8D]Cool [8D] Sorry If it sounded like I was refering to you Greg!

I'm really talking about the two with their sarcasim. I can lighten up a little bitClown [:o)]! but no jokes about a mushroom cloud over someones house! I find it just isnt funny!Dead [xx(]understand.

respectfully,
Erik
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 7:03 PM
Mr. Bultz, if your post was made in jest, you might want to make the jest a bit clearer. I am thankful that Greg shared the web site. Did you go there for your magnets, or another source?

Respectfully,
Brian
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 6:38 PM
LoL... not another one!![:0]Clown [:o)]


I like to experiment, and make my models more realistic, detailed! I like the challange and I like to put alot of work into my models! Isn't part of modeling called being creativeSmile [:)]
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 1:11 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by cthulhu77

How odd...I am working on virtually the same project ! Doing a fair amount of research, I found this place, and they have been really helpful with technical information about lifting the finished model according to weight, etc...
Looking forward to seeing yours done ! (mine is at least a year away)
greg
Here's their address:
http://www.gaussboys.com/


LoL... not another one!![:0]Clown [:o)]
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 7:48 AM
How odd...I am working on virtually the same project ! Doing a fair amount of research, I found this place, and they have been really helpful with technical information about lifting the finished model according to weight, etc...
Looking forward to seeing yours done ! (mine is at least a year away)
greg
Here's their address:
http://www.gaussboys.com/
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 31, 2005 7:59 PM
The Frisbee technique worked!!!!!! Without the wires and did not go fling off of the base!!!!!!! However I'm still looking for a place to by some of the rare Earth Magnets! I have been to a few arts and crafts places, but all of the magents that they carry are to week and could only lift the frisbee off of the ground 3inches. I'm going to a few electronics shops in my area and one of them is a warehouse. I need all of the luck to get myself some magnets that have over 5lbs. of pull or higher. So far the plans are going smoothly!!!!!!!!!!!! Wish me luck guys on finding the right kind, size, magnets!!!!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 28, 2005 2:38 AM
No disagreement here, but I am worried that they might be a bit too strong.

He might get better luck using 4 flat magnets in the base rather than a ring magnet is this way he could "box" the 5 magnet(in the model) in, this might also eliminate the need for wires. Plus the 4 base magnets could be smaller and any shape(except spherical)

Either way he will have to play with the weight of the UFO a LOT I guess.
Too light and it flies off, too heavy and it won't hover either at all or at very low "atlitude".
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: United States
Posted by kylwell on Friday, October 28, 2005 1:52 AM
Keychain magnets are just plain week and if you run more than a fraction of an inch they don't have enough umpf to grab with. Neobium magnets on the other hand can pinch skin hard enough to cause a blister. Very strong (depending on the quality). A god Neo magnet can grab from an inch away with enough force that you can't directly pull it off the metal.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:11 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Erik Bultz
What about using plaster to hold the magnetsQuestion [?]


Too much srinkage while drying, also it tends to crumble and breakup if not mixed properly or knocked about, plus it is not resitant to humidity buildup.
Best bet, IMO, would be the type of silicone or acrylic that they use to glue aquariums together. The stuff has got a certain amount of flex and in the worst cas ecan be pulled apart again.

Remember you DON'T want to cover or surround the magnets with much material as it will affect the magnetic field, of course you simply could add extra juice to boost the field. Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:37 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Zen_Builder

One word of warning.

Be careful what goes between the magnets on the Dio/Base, some stuff/putties will disrupt the magnetic field.

So best to your tests first as planned and than start playing around with placing different materials(various thicknesses) between the magnets to see how it will affect things.

On test I learned from a mechanic friend is to use a magnet(key ring) to look for unseen bodywork, run the magnet over the surface and it won't stick where automotive putty was used. Approve [^]

What about using plaster to hold the magnetsQuestion [?]
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