What happened to the waterline series???

Here's a different look at that Hasegawa set that might give you a better idea:

http://www.hlj.com/product/HSGQG24

jtilley wrote:

There are so many species of wood in the world that I wouldn't want to pronounce any of them "the finest grained."  (The woodworking supply companies are always announcing species I've never heard of from East Asia, Australia, New Zealand, etc. - many of them with extremely fine grain.)  Some pieces of boxwood certainly have a tighter grain than some pieces of holly.  The grain of a nice piece of English boxwood is in fact so fine that, if the wood is cut into small pieces, it's hard to detect the grain at all.  Holly is a particularly nice wood for making miniature reproductions of wood objects (e.g., deck planks) because it does have a visible grain pattern - and it's almost pure white, so the modeler can make it any color he/she likes.  Put a little stain on a piece of holly veneer and it will, literally, look like a miniaturized plank of pine, oak, or teak.

Cool---if you look closely at this tiny pic of the Hasegawa Akagi wood-deck offering, it almost appears that they have inscribed/printed/etc. lines (and variations in shade) that make it appear to have separate planks...of course, until one sees the real thing it is too hard to be sure...

There are so many species of wood in the world that I wouldn't want to pronounce any of them "the finest grained."  (The woodworking supply companies are always announcing species I've never heard of from East Asia, Australia, New Zealand, etc. - many of them with extremely fine grain.)  Some pieces of boxwood certainly have a tighter grain than some pieces of holly.  The grain of a nice piece of English boxwood is in fact so fine that, if the wood is cut into small pieces, it's hard to detect the grain at all. 

Holly is a particularly nice wood for making miniature reproductions of wood objects (e.g., deck planks) because it does have a visible grain pattern - and it's almost pure white, so the modeler can make it any color he/she likes.  Put a little stain on a piece of holly veneer and it will, literally, look like a miniaturized plank of pine, oak, or teak.

jtilley wrote:

Several things need to be considered in making decisions like that.  The first, of course, is the color of the prototype.  During WWII the flight decks of most American carriers (I'm sure there were exceptions) were stained dark blue.  I don't know a great deal about Japanese warship colors, but I have the impression that unpainted flight decks were much more common in the Japanese Navy during that period.  (They did, however, have lots of markings - lines, phonetic symbols, hinomarus, etc. - painted on them, and some, at least, had rather spectacular camoflage patterns.)  I have a knee-jerk reaction against bare wood model parts.  (An exception might be boxwood - but I think we can rule out the possibility of any manufacturer selling boxwood parts for 1/700-scale ship model kits.)  Basswood, the most common one (I think) among the aftermarket manufacturers, cries out for, at the miminum, some sort of clear finish to settle the fuzz.  (My favorite treatment for that purpose is old-fashioned white shellac, highly diluted.)  My longtime favorite, holly, looks great with a little stain applied to it; the grain is so fine that the stain literally makes it look like miniature wood.  The danger, though, is that if you emphasize the grain of the wood too much you'll also emphasize the fact that the entire deck is made from one piece of it, rather than individual planks.  That's why I have some reservations about the whole idea of using sheets of wood to make decks on such a small scale. I should emphasize that I haven't seen any of those aftermarket decks first-hand.  Maybe the manufacturers apply some sort of finish to them.  I have the impression that the plank edges, overall outlines, and various details are indicated with either paint or ink.  If I were trying to decide how to finish such a part I'd certainly do some test shots to make sure the finish I was thinking about wouldn't dissolve the markings - or cover them up, thereby putting me back at square one.

Good stuff...I take it that Holly has the finest grain of any wood?

Several things need to be considered in making decisions like that.  The first, of course, is the color of the prototype.  During WWII the flight decks of most American carriers (I'm sure there were exceptions) were stained dark blue.  I don't know a great deal about Japanese warship colors, but I have the impression that unpainted flight decks were much more common in the Japanese Navy during that period.  (They did, however, have lots of markings - lines, phonetic symbols, hinomarus, etc. - painted on them, and some, at least, had rather spectacular camoflage patterns.) 

I have a knee-jerk reaction against bare wood model parts.  (An exception might be boxwood - but I think we can rule out the possibility of any manufacturer selling boxwood parts for 1/700-scale ship model kits.)  Basswood, the most common one (I think) among the aftermarket manufacturers, cries out for, at the miminum, some sort of clear finish to settle the fuzz.  (My favorite treatment for that purpose is old-fashioned white shellac, highly diluted.)  My longtime favorite, holly, looks great with a little stain applied to it; the grain is so fine that the stain literally makes it look like miniature wood.  The danger, though, is that if you emphasize the grain of the wood too much you'll also emphasize the fact that the entire deck is made from one piece of it, rather than individual planks.  That's why I have some reservations about the whole idea of using sheets of wood to make decks on such a small scale.

I should emphasize that I haven't seen any of those aftermarket decks first-hand.  Maybe the manufacturers apply some sort of finish to them.  I have the impression that the plank edges, overall outlines, and various details are indicated with either paint or ink.  If I were trying to decide how to finish such a part I'd certainly do some test shots to make sure the finish I was thinking about wouldn't dissolve the markings - or cover them up, thereby putting me back at square one.

jtilley wrote:

It sticks in the mind that I saw, within the last day or two, an ad somewhere on the web for a set of detail parts to fit the new Akagi by Hasegawa itself.  It included a set of wood flight deck components.  But now I can't find the ad.  Such are the vagaries of senile memory.... I have to say, though, that I've always had reservations about one-piece wood decks on such small scales.  The problem is that wood grain has scale.  Most of the ones I've seen advertised are made of basswood, with the edges of the planks and other details printed on it in ink.  Basswood has a pretty fine grain, but I'd be concerned that, especially if it was stained, it would look out of scale.  I'm inclined to think a good paint job on a well-molded styrene or resin deck would look just as realistic. But maybe Hasegawa, in this Akagi set (assuming it's not a figment of my imagination), is using a finer-grained hardwood.  Such materials seem to be more common, and cheaper, in Asia than they are here.  In any case, I'm really speaking out of turn in forming an opinion; I haven't seen any of those aftermarket wood decks in person. Now, a deck made out of holly or boxwood....That I'd be tempted to buy.

Would you leave it in its original wood color or stain/paint it?

JMart wrote:

Interesting WIP thread about Akagi and AM wooden decks here: http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=122939&page=2 Manny, you can also find loads of the old waterline kits in Ebay. GreatModels also carries couple hundred of them (Aoshima, Fujimi and even Tamiyas). Skywaves are not part of the old "waterline" consortium but their kits are very very nice, a tad more money but worth it.

Cool thread !  Thanks, JMart...

Interesting WIP thread about Akagi and AM wooden decks here:

http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=122939&page=2

Manny, you can also find loads of the old waterline kits in Ebay. GreatModels also carries couple hundred of them (Aoshima, Fujimi and even Tamiyas). Skywaves are not part of the old "waterline" consortium but their kits are very very nice, a tad more money but worth it.

jtilley wrote:

It sticks in the mind that I saw, within the last day or two, an ad somewhere on the web for a set of detail parts to fit the new Akagi by Hasegawa itself.  It included a set of wood flight deck components.  But now I can't find the ad.  Such are the vagaries of senile memory.... I have to say, though, that I've always had reservations about one-piece wood decks on such small scales.  The problem is that wood grain has scale.  Most of the ones I've seen advertised are made of basswood, with the edges of the planks and other details printed on it in ink.  Basswood has a pretty fine grain, but I'd be concerned that, especially if it was stained, it would look out of scale.  I'm inclined to think a good paint job on a well-molded styrene or resin deck would look just as realistic. But maybe Hasegawa, in this Akagi set (assuming it's not a figment of my imagination), is using a finer-grained hardwood.  Such materials seem to be more common, and cheaper, in Asia than they are here.  In any case, I'm really speaking out of turn in forming an opinion; I haven't seen any of those aftermarket wood decks in person. Now, a deck made out of holly or boxwood....That I'd be tempted to buy.

You didn't imagine it--here it is from Hasegawa available thru Great Models on pre-order for $25:

Hard to tell how fine the grain is or what wood is used...

 

 

 

Here is the new model itself, able to be built in either 1927 or 1935 configurations, for $42:

It sticks in the mind that I saw, within the last day or two, an ad somewhere on the web for a set of detail parts to fit the new Akagi by Hasegawa itself.  It included a set of wood flight deck components.  But now I can't find the ad.  Such are the vagaries of senile memory....

I have to say, though, that I've always had reservations about one-piece wood decks on such small scales.  The problem is that wood grain has scale.  Most of the ones I've seen advertised are made of basswood, with the edges of the planks and other details printed on it in ink.  Basswood has a pretty fine grain, but I'd be concerned that, especially if it was stained, it would look out of scale.  I'm inclined to think a good paint job on a well-molded styrene or resin deck would look just as realistic.

But maybe Hasegawa, in this Akagi set (assuming it's not a figment of my imagination), is using a finer-grained hardwood.  Such materials seem to be more common, and cheaper, in Asia than they are here.  In any case, I'm really speaking out of turn in forming an opinion; I haven't seen any of those aftermarket wood decks in person.

Now, a deck made out of holly or boxwood....That I'd be tempted to buy.

jtilley wrote:

The 1/700 waterline warship kit is indeed very much alive.  Tamiya has released several new kits in the past few years, as have several other companies.  It's particularly heartening to see the manufacturers releasing new, improved versions of subjects that have been on the market for some time.  (Example:  the beautiful new Tamiya Iowa-class battlships, which are worlds ahead of the old Fujimi ones.)  The Dragon 1/700 kits are also excellent. The one that's got me drooling most at the moment, though, is the new Hasegawa Akagi - in her pre-war configuration, with multiple flight decks and beautiful old biplanes. This is a great time to be a warship modeler.  Maybe the best ever.  Enjoy.

Yeah, that Akagi looks sweet...I even saw an AM company provide a real wooden flightdeck for it...

The 1/700 waterline warship kit is indeed very much alive.  Tamiya has released several new kits in the past few years, as have several other companies.  It's particularly heartening to see the manufacturers releasing new, improved versions of subjects that have been on the market for some time.  (Example:  the beautiful new Tamiya Iowa-class battlships, which are worlds ahead of the old Fujimi ones.)  The Dragon 1/700 kits are also excellent.

The one that's got me drooling most at the moment, though, is the new Hasegawa Akagi - in her pre-war configuration, with multiple flight decks and beautiful old biplanes.

This is a great time to be a warship modeler.  Maybe the best ever.  Enjoy.

I also think that 1:700 waterline models are still alive. There are even NEW models
on the shelves, for example FUJIMI of Japan has issued a series of oilers/tankers
of WW II last year and brandnew, the light carrier KAIYO. I received it from HLJ
and its very detailed. The small parts a finely engraved and the kit even comes
with photo etched parts. KAIYO was rebuilt from the passenger ship "Argentina Maru",
her sister ship "Brazil Maru" will be issued soon, in her original form.
Congretulations FUJIMI, for issuing new waterline kits after years of absence,
as far as I remember their last carrier was HOSHO, about 10 years ago.
HASEGAWA also had reissued some of their vintage kits from new tools, for example
ISE and HYUGA, the hybrid carrier-battleships. So there is hope for more kits to come.

Axel Wolters

 

I also like the service from White Ensign Models, Pacific Front Hobbies, and Hobbytime.  If you call them to place your order, they are very helpful about telling you what is and is not in stock.  And, those Combrig kits . . . truly excellent, especially for their low prices.

Bill Morrison

Thanks for the site info guys---I need to start browsing there for my ship needs...sorta bummed me out about Squadron, as I can remember a time when half of their catalog seemed to be filled with waterline products...from BB's down to destroyers and subs...

Check out White Ensign Models:

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/

who offer almost 400 1/700 ship kits in injection plastic alone, not to mention dozens of resin kits too. They include a huge selection of the traditional 1970s Japanese kits, as well as moderne stuff. They offer superb service (sending stuff out by return of post is not unusual) and sensible shipping and minimum order policies.

And if you ever meet them face-to-face, they're also very nice people. And no, I don't work for them, but have ordered stuff regularly from them for over 10 years.

Cheers,

Chris.

Perhaps not, but these vendors aren't ship model specialists. If you want the largest selection of ship models you go to sellers who specialize in them, which is why I noted in my earlier post that Pacific Front Hobbies and FreeTime Hobbies were the places to look for them. In Europe you would go to White Ensign Models or NNT.

The old lines of waterline ships are gradually being replaced with newer, better tooled versions of the ships. Trumpeter and DML have entered the lists of waterline injection molded manufacturers with lots of new product that has replaced many of the old offerings ( an excellent example are the beautiful Trumpeter Washington & North Carolina kits that make the old Aoshima kits look like the blobs of plastic that they were).

So, if you are looking for the old, cheap, lower quality kits, the place to go is eBay where they are afloat in abundance. I would rather go with the newer kits and the plethora of resin that is available. Combrig, a Russian manufacturer produces an incredible array of resin kits covering the late 1800s through modern ships. Their line of Great War ships is by any criteria truly fantastic. What is also amazing about the Combrig kits is their reasonable price! White Ensign Models, WSW and NNT all make truly superb resin kits. There are many manufacturers making hundreds of 700 scale waterline models. WS

chris hall wrote:

In the current Tamiya catalogue alone, there are some 70 1/700 waterline ships, all f which should be obtainable through your LHS. Hannants currently ist over 170 waterline 1/700 ships. Adding etch, each of these represents at least 3 weeks' work, often more. So the current catalogue represents ten years' solid work. By which time, the likes of Trumpeter and Dragon will have released lots more. And that's just what's available in injection-moulded plastic. No great shortage. Cheers, Chris.

Maybe not, but two of the largest on-line stores (Squadron and Great Models) have virtually none of the old Tamiya or Hasegawa line of 1/700 waterlines...???

In the current Tamiya catalogue alone, there are some 70 1/700 waterline ships, all f which should be obtainable through your LHS. Hannants currently ist over 170 waterline 1/700 ships. Adding etch, each of these represents at least 3 weeks' work, often more. So the current catalogue represents ten years' solid work. By which time, the likes of Trumpeter and Dragon will have released lots more. And that's just what's available in injection-moulded plastic.

No great shortage.

Cheers,

Chris.

Quite a few of these kits have been retooled and re-released under different part numbers. New players such as Trumpeter and DML have also released many kits in the 700 scale waterline series. You just need to go to the vendors who have them like www.pacificfront.com or www.freetimhobbies.com. Unless you are Bill Gates or Donald Trump you will run out of money long before you run out of choices in 700 scale. While you are at those vendors don't forget to check out the selection in resin kits as well, injection molded is just the tip of the iceberg.

Before buying any kit always check for reviews at steelnavy.com, modelwarships.com or the Rajens Kit List to see if it has been updated or fully reviewed.

WS

Most of these are still available from all the usual suspects. They have just faded from view with all the new 350 kits flooding the market. Check the review section on my website and you will see many of them.