I NEED TO APOLOGISE

Huh?????????????  ...what did I miss????

I dont know.... I just went thru all his posts from yesterday (your tax dollars at work... LOL) and did not see anything resembling an offensive message/posting for that date...

i think it might have been something about the Bismarck. but there really is no need to apologise if that was what the concern was about.

I also feel like I missed something.  Anyway, no apology needed.

Bill Morrison

Here's my 2bits. I'm a bystander here, not a bonafide, but I've done the apology thing a few times elsewhere, and if you said what you believe, hang tough. I looked over the Bismark deal; that's come up ALOT in aircraft as it's pretty much a feature of all luftwafffe builds. The consensus seems to be that historic depiction serves the common good. You'll get the occasional mouthoffs about "PC", but the real deal is that the Germans ban the use of the symbol for good reason: it represents a clear and present organized gang mentality in their country, but they do not deny the emblem as a representation of a past history.

An empty circle sends the wrong message. There's no hiding the facts, and Jtilley nicely put.

tankerbuilder wrote:

fELLO FSM READERS: I owe you all an apology for going off like I did yesterday . The subject has been a sensitive one for me . The reason? Well some years back I entered a model show . I won,t divulge the venue ,out of respect for their beliefs . Needless to say when I had paid my entry fee and set the models up . I was told they offended some people so ,REMOVE THEM ! I also was told my entry fee was NON-REFUNDABLE !!! When this was questioned A rathed irate person told me to get my ---- loving butt out of there . This is why I went off like I did . My feelings won,t change though ,If it,s part of history then show and build and paint it as it was ....    tankerbuilder

...you must have really found an "out of the way" place (rural, to be kind) to have found that kind of response to a historically accurate subject...seriosuly, could the organizers of that event have even been serious model builders???

  I have 1/72nd scale remote control warships of the WW II era. It is rare that when I sail one of these in the park that I do not get some small minded individual commenting about them who can not see past the fact that the model is a warship, or is flying a Kriegsmarine or IJN Battleflag ( mine are all Axis ships, since they are far more attractive than the allied ships).

  To these people, history does not exist, they live only in the present, and their little minds are really too small to look past what they see. I tend to ignore them, as they are too intellectually challenged to be educated.

Perhaps 'Tankerbuilder's' model show was in a Synagogue in Jerusalem?  THAT might be considered an inappropriate place!  Otherwise, if it is history, it is history.  Might as well ban the British flag in the US, or the Hammer and Sickle in all of Eastern Europe..... If the model show didn't want any WW2 German subjects displayed, they should have said so in their registration forms.....

History is history, that's it. Don't apologize for being accurate. Advise the nay-sayers that when James Cameron(and others, I know but he came to mind) displayed for the world to see the wreck of the Bismarck the swastika was plain as day. There was no attempt to filter it from public view. The History channel plays video all the time which shows the flags, uniforms and equipment of nazi Germany; What's good for the FCC is good for all of us. I'm looking at this from a historical view, not an ideology view, i'm sure that everyone here feels the same.

When I build my Revell 350 Bismark I plan on the camo scheme that covers the hull, superstructure and turrets and this includes the deck markings.

 

Disclaimer to the CIA and NSA: I'm not a nazi lover, just a history lover

If it's national markings that someone found offensive, they must have been rather small-minded. I entered my humble WW II IJN seaplane tender in a local contest a few weeks ago, complete with rising sun flag and meatball markings on all the aircraft, and nobody said a word about that,

...you must have really found an "out of the way" place (rural, to be kind) to have found that kind of response to a historically accurate subject...seriosuly, could the organizers of that event have even been serious model builders???

Which pretty much puts it in it's true perspective, thanks Manny.

In Europe, the ban on these is meaningful. There seem to be about three threads about this going on right now.

There's no easy way to summarize this, nor would it be my place to do so, but....

The ban on the symbol of the NSDAP is law in Germany, just like we have RICO statutes here in the USA. Nazism is gang activity and there are good reasons, oh duh, to suppress it. But in Germany, there are in fact loopholes in the law that allow the use of the symbol in an historic context, so 'nuf said.

There's been a fair amount of discussion off-forum about this amongst folks, in particular those who've lived in Germany post-war.

Spare us all though the stupid notion that it's "PC" to enforce this ban. In fact the whole concept of "PC" is a Facist philosophy. To wit; that which does not please the state harms the people.

This instance of a ban at a model show can't be guessed at without knowing the facts, but it's hardly a newsworthy issue.

Maybe there was a Holocaust survivor on the panel. Be good to find out.

 

 

bondoman wrote:

...you must have really found an "out of the way" place (rural, to be kind) to have found that kind of response to a historically accurate subject...seriosuly, could the organizers of that event have even been serious model builders??? This instance of a ban at a model show can't be guessed at without knowing the facts, but it's hardly a newsworthy issue. Maybe there was a Holocaust survivor on the panel. Be good to find out.

Anyone who feels that they would be offended by WW2 military subjects (whatever those subjects might be), should not be affiliated with such events if such a relationship might disrupt the event and "penalize" modelers for portraying historically and fact-based subject matter.

  Hi PEOPLE : I hope that my comments and apology didn,t create a furor . The fact is , Which I didn,t  know until much ,much later the people who did disqualify my models that had the emblem in question were indeed affiliated with a place of worship and they did have holocaust survivors in the building that day . I feel like I do because ,when little ,I dealt with nasty stuff because of beliefs and race and it did hurt .Years later ,the last thing I would do Intentionally is to hurt anybody that way . I was taught to treat history truthfully and accurately ( MY FATHER INSISTED ON IT ). Oh well ,lets get back to modeling ....      tankerbuilder

Ah.... I see...... In a Synagogue... With Holocaust survivors...... Doh!!  Best file this one under 'most embarassing modeling moment!'

If the cicumstance of the original situation are as I understand them,ouch!

If that wasn't the case,it would be like me denouncing the existence of the US and English governments because of what they did to my ancestors(1/8 Seneca/Cayuga-Iroquios Nation,I'm also part Scottish) for what they did.  History is in the past, let it go, but don't forget it.

My two cents.

searat12 wrote:

Ah.... I see...... In a Synagogue... With Holocaust survivors...... Doh!!  Best file this one under 'most embarassing modeling moment!'

I'm not sure that's exactly what he meant...I read his post and he made no mention of the contest being held in a Synagogue...But if it were, it was a VERY poor choice to hold a modeling contest at, that would inevitable have WW2 subjects entered...IN fact, IMO, any church would be asking for trouble if it sponsored such a contest, as there are always those who want attention by "protesting" and "taking offense" of certain subject matter...

Sounds like the whole thing was organized by the three stooges...yuk, yuk, yuk...

WOW, man---any modeling organization, any institution or club which would take the protestations of people with a restrictive religious agenda over that of the people whom they have held a sponsored event in order to promte and celebrate History would never hear from me again--except in the editorial letter section of the local paper, where the issue would be aired, and the public informed of the hypocrisy of the protesters.

Banning a symbol when it is usd in a historical, realistic context is, to me, no different than burning a book because you don't like the depiction of the historical record contained within.I mean, reallly--what's next? Going to the local library and cleaning out the WWII books?

Absolutely ridiculous.

To build the Bismarck in the scheme that depicts her showing swastikas is part of history and cannot be changed. We all are trying to achieve accuracy when we build our models. If she has them for the period you are building her, then show them. You are depicting factorial evidence. We can't build anything Japanese without showing the Rising Sun on occassions. The terror that was dealt out by them still haunts Veterans of their rule on both sides of the Pacific. You have nothing to apologise for my friend. The ones who should apologise are the ones who treated yourself the way they did at that particular show. Keep your head up and enjoy creating a little part of our history with pride. Mark